Skimmer comparison old aqua-c urchin vs RO CLASSIC 110SSS

[CTaylor]

Hi,

If anyone knows of the urchin skimmer https://proteinskimmer.com/products/urchin

how does it compare to the Reef Octopus CLASSIC 110SSS https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef...-5-internal-space-saving-protein-skimmer.html ?

The latter is actually less expensive if you consider the pump is incl with it and not the urchin.

My urchin pulls almost nothing from my 35 gallon FOWLR tank. It has only 2 OSFF (orange spot file fish) and 5 neon gobies. But the files eat a lot. Probably as much as 4 fish their size. They go crazy for food. Anyhow I also have a bloom of cyano. I do have a decent 'fuge full of growing chaeto. But still the cyano. My po4 is low nitrates are as well, though I need to re-check. I clean my skimmer maybe once a week, often once every two, and with little skimmate. I have it set so it's the wettest skimmate possble. I even put a higher pump on it than 'recommended' hoping to get more bubbles collected. But no.

I have at times gotten a film of on my tank surface, though it hasnt happened for a few weeks. So at least at times I'm having some build up of protein etc in water (I think). What would you do? :-D

TY!

 

[hhaase]

I had both the remora and EV-180 by Aqua-C, and never was overly impressed with either one. Loud, used a big pump, didn’t skim very much. The spray nozzle foam generation just didn’t seem to have much control at all to it. Moving to a cone skimmer was a huge improvement to me.

 

[alton]

I have been running an Urchin Pro since 2003. I have replaced the pump like 4 times. Still works fine for me. On my 65 gallon I use a regular urchin with a Cobalt 1200 since a Marineland 1200 won't work. But since cobalt are hard to find I am trying out a Rio 1100 this week. Check your pump, if it is old replace it and your skimming will get better. Doesn't sound like your water quality is that bad though?

 

[CTaylor]

I have been running an Urchin Pro since 2003. I have replaced the pump like 4 times. Still works fine for me. On my 65 gallon I use a regular urchin with a Cobalt 1200 since a Marineland 1200 won't work. But since cobalt are hard to find I am trying out a Rio 1100 this week. Check your pump, if it is old replace it and your skimming will get better. Doesn't sound like your water quality is that bad though?

Hi Alton and Hhasse,

I just put a 350 gph Sicce on it. Recommended for the urchin is 250 gph. (I dont have the pro). Only a tiny bit of skimmate after 24 hrs. With my cyano I think I have more organics in the water. Though I dont want to replace it with a 'cadillac' skimmer and still same thing happens b/c I simply have nothing to pull out.

**Is there a way to test my water to see if I have anything more to pull out that is not being pulled out now? I think I seen an organics test kit (??) salifert maybe??

TY

 

[alton]

I am one who believes you need a skimmer, you just do not need to spend $800 on one for a 65 gallon tank. I have a friend who set up his tank years ago. Ran bio pellets extra large skimmer and phosphates and nitrates where extremely low. His tank was immaculate and corals grew well. But his corals never had that extra great color that you see in pictures. One day he had an issue with his bio pellet reactor so he took it off line. In a couple weeks his nitrates shot up to 20 ppm. In a month or so his corals colored up like he always wanted. If everything is fine why change it unless you want to spend the money.

 

[robertcedgar]

I’m a big fan of Octopus. I have a SRO 3000sss with Bubbleblaster 3000 pump on my 180 and it pulls all kind of crud out. Also consider Skimz, who makes a quality product. I have a Skimz Monzter 161, which I used on a 200 with a very low clearance stand. It did a really nice job for years. However, between Octopus and an Urchin, Octopus wins every time.

 

[CTaylor]

I'm thinking Im' going to soak the skimmer in dilute vinegar over night.. and run the pump with it. Maybe somehow a good vinegar cleaning is what it needs (????). If not, nothign lost. I found a salifert organics kit avail from a european website. I emailed them to see if they can ship to me in USA.

 

[CTaylor]

It's not fine. I have an issue with Cyano, which I can't stand (who can?). I agree you need some level of nutrients, as I think most that follow the hobby now do/ or should by now. But I'm not pulling anything out pretty much which makes little sense, as it's getting fed proportionally same as my reef tank, which pulls out good skimmate.

I am one who believes you need a skimmer, you just do not need to spend $800 on one for a 65 gallon tank. I have a friend who set up his tank years ago. Ran bio pellets extra large skimmer and phosphates and nitrates where extremely low. His tank was immaculate and corals grew well. But his corals never had that extra great color that you see in pictures. One day he had an issue with his bio pellet reactor so he took it off line. In a couple weeks his nitrates shot up to 20 ppm. In a month or so his corals colored up like he always wanted. If everything is fine why change it unless you want to spend the money.

 

[CTaylor]

I'm a big fan of Octopus. I have a SRO 3000sss with Bubbleblaster 3000 pump on my 180 and it pulls all kind of crud out. Also consider Skimz, who makes a quality product. I have a Skimz Monzter 161, which I used on a 200 with a very low clearance stand. It did a really nice job for years. However, between Octopus and an Urchin, Octopus wins every time.

I'm thinking same thing, which is why I'm leaning to the octo. And i doubt I'll get it and it will pull out near nothing given what I feed the tank daily. It's just slighly possible that the fuge is pulling everything out that a skimmer could -- but i have a proprtionally bigger fuge on my larger reef tank. That RO pulls out fair skimmate all the time.

 

[robertcedgar]

I'm thinking same thing, which is why I'm leaning to the octo. And i doubt I'll get it and it will pull out near nothing given what I feed the tank daily. It's just slighly possible that the fuge is pulling everything out that a skimmer could -- but i have a proprtionally bigger fuge on my larger reef tank. That RO pulls out fair skimmate all the time.

I also have a refugium. Despite this fact, my octopus still pulls out lots of bad stuff. If you make the purchase, you will probably be pleasantly surprised.

 

[CTaylor]

I also have a refugium. Despite this fact, my octopus still pulls out lots of bad stuff. If you make the purchase, you will probably be pleasantly surprised.

I'm pretty sure you're right on it pulling out sh*t . I'm stil goign to soak my urchin tomorrow for 12 hrs. If it still doesnt pull anything out for a few days, it will be odd though. Only thing can be is that they just wear out somehow -- maybe the spray injector somethow deforms, I don't know. Because it used to 'work'. oh well....

My N03 is 0 ppm, (I know that is not ideal --I shoot for 5 ppm). Phophorous total is 0 ppm (I of course have some, and the zero is due to error), but hanna tests it at 0. I would like it to read 20 ppBillion. Not that this matters for protein skimmer performance, as my reef tank for a lonnnngg time had the same readings, and was always pulling out stuff in the skimmer.

I'll update what happens after I do the vinegar soak.

 

[alton]

It's not fine. I have an issue with Cyano, which I can't stand (who can?). I agree you need some level of nutrients, as I think most that follow the hobby now do/ or should by now. But I'm not pulling anything out pretty much which makes little sense, as it's getting fed proportionally same as my reef tank, which pulls out good skimmate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5QRZREjud0

 

[CTaylor]

Thanks for the link.. It did re-inforce the need to get out more detritus. I have very little sand, but stirring it up will release a lot of partilces. Though my filter sock is 200um, not 100 um. I know I have an imbalnce simiply b/c my nutrients are too low. All I can really do (most easily) is feed more .. but that's more detritus. So I'll just have to let things continue to settle in like they eventually did on my reef tank.

I'm going to make sure my filter sock is in secure more with no gaps for water to pass and stir the f out of the sand and blow the rocks with turkey baster a few times over . and then make sure to do that often. We'll see how that works even though my nutrient balance (of none) is not right. Somehow my reef tank just snapped in to 'balance'. This one has been set up as long or longer. Just is what it is. But that was a good video reinforcing important basics also.

 

[hhaase]

It's the nature of a low nutrient tank and an Aqua-C skimmer to not be skimming anything. They create bubbles/foam by blasting a high velocity spray onto the water surface in the skimmer. But, water itself won't create foam, there needs to be a contaminant present for it to work. No nutrients/TDS..... no foam . If you've got a lot of organics in the water this type of skimmer can pull a LOT of crud from the water. The size of the bubbles, how long they last, how high they rise, all depends on the nature and amount of what's in your water. I know that water hardness also works into the equation as well, hard water doesn't foam as well as soft water. So as your water conditions change, so does a critical variable in what makes the skimmer work. Which makes me think, the more I read your posts, that you've already removed all the nutrients you can/should with a skimmer, and might need to look in other directions for your issue.

With a needle wheel skimmer, you've got a venturi pulling air into the water flow, the needle wheel breaks it down into smaller bubbles through cavitation and agitation, usually a bubble plate that holds it all together for a while, and the column/cone for the bubbles to rise in. So even when nutrients are low, you're still getting at least some foaming, and they'll tend to pull crud out more consistently. And since you're not as flow/pressure dependent, you can use smaller pumps for a given size. Heck, some old/small skimmers out there don't even have pumps, just airstones.

 

[CTaylor]

HI Hasse

TY for that!
Though isnt salt water inherintley hard? Since it has tons of minerals in it. Of course it has high tds also.. from al the dissolved salts.
The rest makes sense. Though the onhly nutrienets that are low are NO3 and Phosphourous. I'm sure there are other nutirents and organics I "cant" test for (easily).
I know you didnt say this or elude to this much, but again in my 'big" reef tank I had for a time same 0/0 levles, yet still good skimming. So, you're right that low nutirents of phosph and nitrate can stil get good skimming with the right skimmer. I'm glad you told me about details on spray compared to venturi. interesting :-D

It's the nature of a low nutrient tank and an Aqua-C skimmer to not be skimming anything. They create bubbles/foam by blasting a high velocity spray onto the water surface in the skimmer. But, water itself won't create foam, there needs to be a contaminant present for it to work. No nutrients/TDS..... no foam . If you've got a lot of organics in the water this type of skimmer can pull a LOT of crud from the water. The size of the bubbles, how long they last, how high they rise, all depends on the nature and amount of what's in your water. I know that water hardness also works into the equation as well, hard water doesn't foam as well as soft water. So as your water conditions change, so does a critical variable in what makes the skimmer work. Which makes me think, the more I read your posts, that you've already removed all the nutrients you can/should with a skimmer, and might need to look in other directions for your issue.

With a needle wheel skimmer, you've got a venturi pulling air into the water flow, the needle wheel breaks it down into smaller bubbles through cavitation and agitation, usually a bubble plate that holds it all together for a while, and the column/cone for the bubbles to rise in. So even when nutrients are low, you're still getting at least some foaming, and they'll tend to pull crud out more consistently. And since you're not as flow/pressure dependent, you can use smaller pumps for a given size. Heck, some old/small skimmers out there don't even have pumps, just airstones.

 

[hhaase]

HI Hasse

TY for that!
Though isnt salt water inherintley hard? Since it has tons of minerals in it. Of course it has high tds also.. from al the dissolved salts.
The rest makes sense. Though the onhly nutrienets that are low are NO3 and Phosphourous. I'm sure there are other nutirents and organics I "cant" test for (easily).
I know you didnt say this or elude to this much, but again in my 'big" reef tank I had for a time same 0/0 levles, yet still good skimming. So, you're right that low nutirents of phosph and nitrate can stil get good skimming with the right skimmer. I'm glad you told me about details on spray compared to venturi. interesting :-D

Yes,saltwater is hard water, but it can vary quite a lot depending on what you're dosing, what salt you're using, and what might be consuming things. Harder water actually foams less too, just ask anybody with really hard well-water. Never really dove too much into that to be honest though, and I'm not 100% sure how much hardness affects a spray nozzle skimmer.

I suffered through essentially the same thing with my own. I went from the Remora to the EV-180, put a bigger pump on the EV-180, never really got the algae under control with those, nor did I get any significant skimmate out from either one. I ended up changing just about everything but the tank and eventually got it under control. By that point I was running 3 reactors with GFO, Carbon, and Biopellets, cone skimmer, LED's, and dosing 2-part. I found the hard way too that you really can't skip any of the water testing. Ph, salinity, gh, kh, phosphates, nitrates, and magnesium was my regular test routine. Until I started looking at them all regularly I just never got anything under control.

-Hans

 

[alton]

Any updates? Interesting I have a 100 gallon rubbermaid tub for my QT system and I hooked up my Remora with a Sicce 1 @250 GPH and it was skimming like crazy. I poured out a 1/2" of brown skimmate overnight. I always thought I needed 300GPH. The way I look at it if you ain't happy buy your new skimmer, you can always sell the Urchin online.

 

[hhaase]

Any updates? Interesting I have a 100 gallon rubbermaid tub for my QT system and I hooked up my Remora with a Sicce 1 @250 GPH and it was skimming like crazy. I poured out a 1/2" of brown skimmate overnight. I always thought I needed 300GPH. The way I look at it if you ain't happy buy your new skimmer, you can always sell the Urchin online.

For this style skimmer, the pump volume is secondary to what the nozzle is doing. The critical portion is how hard the spray from the nozzle is hitting the surface of the water.

Easiest analogy I can come up with is to think like you're washing your car, and trying to make the bucket of soapy water as foamy as possible. You need enough water of course, but it's more important how you've got your thumb over the end of the hose.

-Hans

 

[CTaylor]

I am finishing the vinegar 'rinse' now.. it's been for 12 hours. I'm going to let it go on until i'm done with work tonight. So I'm hoping it works after esp after your comment, Alton.
And, yes that makes sense also Hhasse. After this the skimmer should be good as new (?). Except for any defects that somehow occurred to spray nozzle over time (???). From what I can see it looks clear, though I can only see it from a few inches away, and internally, because of where it's positioned in the skimmer.

EDIT: I have it all cleaned via the vinegar rinse. I just thought to test it in my reef tank. I turned off that tank's skimmer and now have the urchin. I'll see what comes out in the next 24 hrs. I though it's possible that the water depth of the sump that the urchin was in was not deep enough. It's about 7". I should be able to adjust that to about 9" if I need to. My reef tank sump is 9". The skimme rin that tank (ROcto) is on a pedestal so it's height is effectly about 6" I think. But that doesnt really matter. The urchin is in a tank that normally produces skimmate with an RO and it's also in deeper water. If it works then I have evidence the skimmer is fine. And I dont think it shoudl matter that it's a spray and not a venturi. As the bubbles are the same.. they are gigantic surfaces between water and air, which is where organics adhere to.

 

[CTaylor]

***Do I need to wait some time for the skimmer to skim anything at all??? since it was just cleaned with vinegar dilution?
I tend to think it should take max 24 hrs to get some type of foam, esp when the RO was just pulling foam out just before the 'test' started. And this urchin skimmer was foaming some during the vinegar + RO/DI water rinse/soak/run through.