skimmer head scratcher

[BigBadBlenny]

ok here it is. i need to decide between the hurricone cat 2 or the swc 250 1A.


they are the same price pretty much. i just cant pull the trigger.


i only have a 100 gal with a 30 sump but will be getting a bigger tank soon. i am thinking about a 150 tall with a 50 sump.

 

[DarG]

My opinion ... If you want a cone, buy a cone. The Hurricone isnt a true cone. It's a cylindrical cylinder with the transition starting lower than other cylindrical skimmers. A hybrid at best. I have no idea how the Hurricone performs but the dual sicce and askoll driven MSX / SWC cones are getting great reviews. I was amazed that there is zero noticeable turbulence in my dual sicce cone and I hear the same is true of the 1A askoll driven cone.

In the class of CONE skimmers, my personal opinion is that the Hurricone should be called the HurriCON. Its not because it isnt a good skimmer. I have no idea how it performs. But you pay a premium price for the cone shape skimmers and paying that price for what amounts to a cylindrical skimmer with a foam concentrator/transition that starts lower than other cylindrical skimmers, to me personally, is ridiculous.

Again these are just my opinions based on the design/shape and price of the skimmer relative to price tag of other available true cones like the 1A. It may be a great skimmer and it may not be but it isnt a true cone despite carrying the price tag of comparable, true cones.

 

[Emory Speight]

DarG, What size system are you using your cone on? Would love to hear some more feedback concerning this skimmer(swc cone), especially your feelings concerning the dual sicces, noise level, skimming ability,etc. The Hurricone cat2 is what I have been strongly considering for a 260g. I will be setting up soon, especially after reading quite a bit of good reviews about it, but the cones seem to be worth considering also, Thanks.

 

[BigBadBlenny]

well if your considering a cat 2 on a 260g i think its gonna be over kill for me..

 

[Emory Speight]

Glad you said that Blenny as I have been back and forth trying to choose between the cat1 and 2. My first thought was to go with the #1 but I figured since the diff. was only $80. between the two, why not go with the cat2? After all is said and done though, I would prefer the size skimmer that matches my system best.

 

[BigBadBlenny]

i found this on the Reef Specialty forum.




CAT- 1 Internal - estimated for tanks up to 200 gal tank
Footprint: 14"x14"
Tall: 24.5"
Body: 8"
Neck: 5"
Pump: Askoll 1500 with custom machined volute and pinwheel
Price: $620*
http://www.reefspecialty.com/Protei...oduct_info.html

CAT - 2 Internal - estimated for tanks up to 300-325 gal tank
Footprint:13"x16"
Tall: 27"
Body: 10"
Neck: 6"
Pump: Askoll 1500 with custom machined volute and pinwheel
Price: $699*
http://www.reefspecialty.com/Protei...oduct_info.html

CAT - 2 External - estimated for tanks up to 350- 400 gal tank
Footprint:17"x16"
Tall: 27"
Body: 10"
Neck: 6"
Pump:Askoll 1500 with custom machined volute and pinwheel
Price: $799*
http://www.reefspecialty.com/Protei...oduct_info.html

*introductory prices only, quantities are limited

 

[DarG]

Im using the cone on a 90 right now. Way overkill. But there is a larger tank in the works in the near future.

Go to the Marine Solutions forum and check out the cone threads. Thats the best place on this site to find infor and feedback without having to search.

I was using the MSX 200 with meshed sicce but found the space for the cone in the sump. Since my plan was to go with the cone when I upsized the tank I just went ahead and picked up the cone now. I went with the dual sicce cone because you get plenty of air with the pinwheels ... dont have to mesh the pumps.

I wasnt sure I could fit the askoll powered cone or I think I would have gone with it.

The story on the Sicce pumps is that mine are both quiet. There can be a break in period as crazy as that sounds. Both mine chattered intermittently for a few days. Then one hummed slightly for a couple more days but after a week both pumps were quiet. I hear that there is the occassional sicce that doesnt quiet down or constantly chatters intolerably and needs to be replaced. But the 4 sicce pumps I own/have owned have either been quiet from the start or quieted down after a short break in. And again, when they were noisy, it was only intermittent. Even the two that were noisy during break in were quiet 99% of the time. I could quiet the "chatter" down for hours in most cases by a simple pinch of the airline. The got better everyday and after a week they were both running quietly with no more intermittent chatter or hum. You can hear them running but only right near the skimmer.

Check the marine solutions forum. Everyone seems to be very happy with their cones from what I have read.

Again, I dont know anything about the Hurricone skimmers performance. It just seems to me that one is paying the price of a cone skimmer for what is more of a standard cylindrical shape skimmer than it is a cone. Thats my only issue with it and its solely my personal opinion.

 

[DarG]

One other thing. Im very leary of the Cat 1. I believe that the Askoll pump is too much for the 8" body despite the 5" neck diameter.

 

[Jefe12234]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14422824#post14422824 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DarG
One other thing. Im very leary of the Cat 1. I believe that the Askoll pump is too much for the 8" body despite the 5" neck diameter.

The pinwheels on the CAT-1 and CAT-2 are different and have been selected to pull an appropriate amount of air for each body. So the CAT-1 will pull less air and wattage than the CAT-2 even though they use the same pump.

CAT-1: 65scfh @ 58w
CAT-2: 80scfh @ 70w

Also, the Hurricones are $200-280 cheaper than the 1A cone when I checked. And after seeing the air/water movement in my Hurricone, I don't believe there's much room for improvement with a full cone. But I've never used a full cone so I can't say for sure.

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14422952#post14422952 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jefe12234
The pinwheels on the CAT-1 and CAT-2 are different and have been selected to pull an appropriate amount of air for each body. So the CAT-1 will pull less air and wattage than the CAT-2 even though they use the same pump.

CAT-1: 65scfh @ 58w
CAT-2: 80scfh @ 70w

Also, the Hurricones are $200-280 cheaper than the 1A cone when I checked. And after seeing the air/water movement in my Hurricone, I don't believe there's much room for improvement with a full cone. But I've never used a full cone so I can't say for sure.

Thanks for the info on the pinwheel difference. I still think its too much for the body if the air numbers are real. I suspected that the askoll pump would pull 60 or so on that body. But again, it have no experience with the skimmer. It appeared to be an issue with the PRO 300 and I see it as a possible issue with this skimmer as well.

Im glad that you are happy with your skimmer and that you feel it was a good value.

 

[Snausy]

I'm in the exact same situation as you. I have a 100gallon tank atm but am upgrading to a 330gallon soon(couple months).

I bought a Cat-2 to handle the 330 and have it on my 100 atm. It is an amazing skimmer that is designed very well and the guys over at reefspecialty have worked very hard to tweak it so it performs as well as it does. It's a high performance skimmer that may be overkill for my current setup but will be perfect for me in the future. I don't mind overkill when it means that the problem is there is NO gunk for it to suck out of my system some days. I have to overfeed my fish just to keep it relatively consistent.

Darg, the askoll pulls 80+ on this body. There are pictures of it doing so in the hurricone thread. IMHO you calling it a "hurricon" is funny considering that you state again and again that you have NO idea how the hurricone actually performs. It DOES have a large cone-shaped transition to the neck so the name is appropriate imho. You call it a "hybrid" as if that is a put-down...something undesirable. Seems to me "hybrid" means the best of both worlds. Useful technology taken from different concepts. Hybrid cars are all the rage. Why is "hybrid" bad?

The Hurricone's cone transition to the neck is designed and works very well. The Hurricone and the pro-300 are very different skimmers...please don't try to compare them. Why you try to put down the cat-2 so much without having any idea how they actually perform makes me wonder. Ask yourself, are you trying to put down the new Hurricone because you own a "true" cone? Are you just being a fanboy? I don't understand why you would try to shoot down a brand new skimmer design that you have no actual experience with.

If someone(you) can show me definitively that a true cone that runs the entire length of the skimmer is a better performer and more expensive to manufacture than a large body skimmer with a large cone transition to a decent sized neck then I'll agree with your idea that it is overpriced. Until then I'll think that this cat-2 performing as well or better than many 1k+ skimmers is a great deal.

Instead of trying to talk bad about the competition which I have no knowledge about, I'll just go ahead and say that the Hurricone cat-2 I have running is an amazing skimmer. I'm very happy with my purchase and have zero buyers remorse. I dont' think I will ever max out this skimmer...

 

[DarG]

dp, sorry.

 

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14425252#post14425252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Snausy
I'm in the exact same situation as you. I have a 100gallon tank atm but am upgrading to a 330gallon soon(couple months).

I bought a Cat-2 to handle the 330 and have it on my 100 atm. It is an amazing skimmer that is designed very well and the guys over at reefspecialty have worked very hard to tweak it so it performs as well as it does. It's a high performance skimmer that may be overkill for my current setup but will be perfect for me in the future. I don't mind overkill when it means that the problem is there is NO gunk for it to suck out of my system some days. I have to overfeed my fish just to keep it relatively consistent.

Darg, the askoll pulls 80+ on this body. There are pictures of it doing so in the hurricone thread. IMHO you calling it a "hurricon" is funny considering that you state again and again that you have NO idea how the hurricone actually performs. It DOES have a large cone-shaped transition to the neck so the name is appropriate imho. You call it a "hybrid" as if that is a put-down...something undesirable. Seems to me "hybrid" means the best of both worlds. Useful technology taken from different concepts. Hybrid cars are all the rage. Why is "hybrid" bad?

The Hurricone's cone transition to the neck is designed and works very well. The Hurricone and the pro-300 are very different skimmers...please don't try to compare them. Why you try to put down the cat-2 so much without having any idea how they actually perform makes me wonder. Ask yourself, are you trying to put down the new Hurricone because you own a "true" cone? Are you just being a fanboy? I don't understand why you would try to shoot down a brand new skimmer design that you have no actual experience with.

If someone(you) can show me definitively that a true cone that runs the entire length of the skimmer is a better performer and more expensive to manufacture than a large body skimmer with a large cone transition to a decent sized neck then I'll agree with your idea that it is overpriced. Until then I'll think that this cat-2 performing as well or better than many 1k+ skimmers is a great deal.

Instead of trying to talk bad about the competition which I have no knowledge about, I'll just go ahead and say that the Hurricone cat-2 I have running is an amazing skimmer. I'm very happy with my purchase and have zero buyers remorse. I dont' think I will ever max out this skimmer...

You are posting in response to the fact that you own the skimmer, not in response to what I posted. Why must you take it personally.

There are potential buyers that want a cone skimmer and are including the Hurricone in the cone category. It is my opinion that it is not a cone skimmer therefore, this is exactly what I posted ...

"In the class of CONE skimmers, my personal opinion is that the Hurricone should be called the HurriCON. Its not because it isnt a good skimmer. I have no idea how it performs. But you pay a premium price for the cone shape skimmers and paying that price for what amounts to a cylindrical skimmer with a foam concentrator/transition that starts lower than other cylindrical skimmers, to me personally, is ridiculous."

You've misconstrued what I have written because you took it personally and were blinded by the fact that you own one. There is no reason to take it personally. I take issue with the name, I feel it is misleading and I feel that the skimmer is overpriced in that it is priced as if it were a true cone. These are my opinions on the representation and pricing of the skimmer, that's all. And for the record, I think cone skimmers are overpriced in general as you are still paying for a relatively new design.

Read again what I wrote not what you think I wrote and settle down. Im not bashing your skimmers performance or quality.

And by the way, my concern was for air related to the 8" bodied Cat1, not the Cat2. You were so blinded and gung ho to bash me that you even misconstrued what I wrote there as well.

Regardless, I am glad that you are happy with the skimmer.

 

[Snausy]

Don't try to twist this on me...you are the one bashing the hurricone without knowing anything about it.

Here is his initial question. Notice how it's between two options:

"ok here it is. i need to decide between the hurricone cat 2 or the swc 250 1A."

Look, I'm glad you like your skimmer. Sell it all you want. I hear it's a good skimmer...but you make the mistake of talking about how the hurricone should be named "hurricon" and go on about how it's not worth the money etc etc etc. blah blah blah...

There is a cone transition, hence the name "hurricone". Get it now? The OP NAMED the cat-2...then you go on about how "leary" you are about the cat-1. Who cares? He's talking about the cat-2...which I have and can give him information about from my personal experience.

If you came in here and talked about how great your cone is, and talked about how well it performed etc etc you wouldn't have hurricone owners in here trying to defend what you are saying...but once you start bashing the hurricone without knowing ANYTHING about it YOU look like the one who is personally involved and we Hurricone owners want to make sure good info gets out there about it. Fact is it's a very good skimmer. Why bash the hurricone at all guy? You obviously have a personal stake in your skimmer and can't just be happy with selling it and talking about how great it is. You have to mudsling about a skimmer that you know nothing about. Twist it all you want, I responded to what you said...not the other way around.

Notice that I say nothing about your skimmer...I don't know much about it and feel it's probably a great skimmer. The Hurricone is a great skimmer as well. I have no idea what is better...and neither do you.

 

[nreefer]

SWC Cones

SWC Cones

Hi Bigbadblenny, I have owned quite a few skimmers in my 10 plus years of this hobby and recently purchase 2 x SWC Askol cones for my system. I have to say that they have been nothing short of amazing from day one. Within a few days they were pulling quite a bit of skimmate from my system. I have posted a few pics in the Marinesolutions forum but I'll post some here as well. They are pulling about 70 SCFH (Dwyer 100 SCFH measuring instrument) at 7.5 inches depth. I don't think the body could handle much more without being unstable. But the entire cone is a consistant white froth. As for the Hurricone, I have never tired it, but I agree with DarG. It isn't really a true cone in the sense that you get the pro's of having the gradual slop towards the neck and the minimal back pressure on the pumps/micro bubbles.
It does use the same pump and in reality the pump is 80% of the battle in creating a good skimmer.

Here are the two cones in my sump: (this is two days worth of skimmate, I am running them wet right now to lower my DOC's)

And here is my main tank:

 

[DarG]

I never bashed your precious skimmer, are you daft? I criticized the name. Naming it *********"cone" when it is a 3/4 regular cylindrical skimmer with a longer concentrator/transition is marketing BS IMO. And I criticized the pricing of it near that of true cone skimmers. Thats it.

If anyone is looking to buy a cone skimmer they are NOT getting one with the purchase of the Hurricone ... end of story.

Find one quote where I categorically criticized the performance or quality of the skimmer. You cant because it doesnt exist.

Quit crying about it already.

 

[DarG]

Re: SWC Cones

Re: SWC Cones

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14427149#post14427149 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nreefer
. As for the Hurricone, I have never tired it, but I agree with DarG. It isn't really a true cone in the sense that you get the pro's of having the gradual slop towards the neck and the minimal back pressure on the pumps/micro bubbles.
It does use the same pump and in reality the pump is 80% of the battle in creating a good skimmer.

I would have agreed with you on the pump issue until the results of the skimmer test were posted on the MS forum. The dual sicce cone outperformed the dual sicce MSX extreme by far larger margin than 20%.

 

[Snausy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14427215#post14427215 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DarG
I never bashed your precious skimmer, are you daft? I criticized the name. Naming it *********"cone" when it is a 3/4 regular cylindrical skimmer with a longer concentrator/transition is marketing BS IMO. And I criticized the pricing of it near that of true cone skimmers. Thats it.

If anyone is looking to buy a cone skimmer they are NOT getting one with the purchase of the Hurricone ... end of story.

Find one quote where I categorically criticized the performance or quality of the skimmer. You cant because it doesnt exist.

Quit crying about it already.

Nobody is crying. I'm laughing at you.

Bottom line is skimmers are all about price/performance. In the same breath that you tell everyone that the hurricone is overpriced, you freely admit that you have no clue how it performs. It's a joke...

The custom volute is machined very well in this askoll motor(much more desirable than the sicce pumps)...heck they even use special expensive fiber optic grease on the shafts/impeller that is used for underwater fiberoptic testing on offshore oilrigs.

IF it turns out that the hurricone performs better than your "precious" cone...heck if it performs as well as a 1500 skimmer, is it still overpriced? Talking about it being overpriced when you don't know how it performs is absolutely brilliant *rolls eyes*.

Call me daft and any other name you like. You act all surprised and innocent that someone that owns a hurricone would take issue with your negative comments towards it. Are you truly this unwise and uninsightful or are you just pretending to be?

You say it's a marketing "con" and then wonder how in the world someone who bought one could/would actually feel defensive about your comments? lol funny guy.

Enough of this bickering...it's not worth my time.

"daft" lol...good god man.

 

[Emory Speight]

Gotta love that passion for these skimmers (swc cone and hurricone). I have to admit though that so far no matter how much I study between the cones and the hurricone I find myself continually drawn back to the hurricone. Besides the great pump and custom volute I am also impressed with the combination of the greater capacity of the body along with the more gradual cone-type neck as compared to the more traditional styled necks. Yes, as a hybrid I think this is definitely a good thing.

 

[Jefe12234]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14427604#post14427604 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Emory Speight
Gotta love that passion for these skimmers (swc cone and hurricone). I have to admit though that so far no matter how much I study between the cones and the hurricone I find myself continually drawn back to the hurricone. Besides the great pump and custom volute I am also impressed with the combination of the greater capacity of the body along with the more gradual cone-type neck as compared to the more traditional styled necks. Yes, as a hybrid I think this is definitely a good thing.

Another thing I like about the Hurricone is all of the small refinements. For instance, the wedge pipe is easier to turn than most, so you can make small adjustments without overcorrecting. Plus the silencer is loose enough that it rotates freely, so it never hits the collection cup when you adjust the wedge pipe. And the custom volute and pinwheel look nicer and probably increase performance a bit compared to other Askolls I've seen. I'm sure the 1A cone is a great skimmer as well, but I can't think of anything I would change about my Hurricone.