skimmer plumbed "in-line"?? - Anthony help!

[reefbaby]

Due to all the great advice on the skimmer threads, I'd like to maximize our skimmer potential!

Could someone give me advice on how to best plump a skimmer directly into the overflow?

I've posted the dimensions and possible closed-loop design on a different thread:


The question I have now is - is it even possible to plump the overflow directly through the skimmer and then the skimmed water would then be fed into the sump? If I were aiming for about 4000lph through the sump, is this too much strain on the skimmer??

Am I thinking backwards here?? Sorry if the questions are stupid, I know NOTHING about plumbing, but am trying to learn...

Thanks in advance!

 

[EdKruzel]

You would have to check the maximum ability of the skimmer.
I've never liked plumbing the skimmer directly from the overflow.

It is much easier to run it off an independant pump and less to worry about when trying to adjust it properly.

Ed

 

[Jive Turkey]

I looked into the thread but didn't see a skimmer brand. Is it a re-circulating skimmer, or a mod you look to do?

I have never tried it, but will give it a shot here soon on some new tanks I'm setting up. Seems to be pretty straight-forward. You need to match the overflow rate with the skimmers ideal turnover rate, which requires a large skimmer that can handle a 600-900gph turnover thru it.
Just consider that the sump return pump is also the skimmer circulation pump. An advantage is that only one pump is consuming electricity and creating heat in the water.
Don't try to push too much water thru the Durso, or you'll get uneven flow thru the drain, and the skimmer won't work as well as it should. It may even overflow.

*Ed- did you run into problems?

 

[EdKruzel]

The problems I've encountered have been that even with running less than recommended through the skimmer body it was't as efficient as when ran on an independant pump even of similar gph.

The durso when run off of two or more overflows will be hard to match without using a ball valve.
My 210 were both utilizing the same diameter and distance to the sump, however the left side was always slower with a higher level.
I plumbed in a couple of ball valves and cut back the right; perfect...

Ed

 

[reefbaby]

Hey Joe M - thanks for the tips. Actually, we haven't settled on a skimmer yet for the new tank. Currently, for the 550liter tank, we have a H&S Skimmer (110-F2000) (a german company). We've been pretty happy with it, but since this skimmer is the only one I've experienced, it's hard for me to say whether the same brand would be good for the larger tank.

Is there such a thing as a re-circulating skimmer?

Ed - I appreciate your comments as well. It's amazing what a science this hobby is and how one can constantly be learning new stuff.

There's something that I'm a little confused about though:
From the threads and articles that I've read of Anthony's on protein skimming, I was under the impression that overflows that cause the volume of water to be larger than what would go through the skimmer would result in a large proportion of it just bypassing the skimmer and being re-circulated. I like the concept of the dursostands, but doesn't the act of the water tumbling over into the overflow result in the proteins being swirled around again and not really being at the surface of the water for the skimmer to take advantage of?? Does this make any sense? That's why I was thinking about trying to hook the overflow directly to the skimmer - but I guess this would be pretty loud as well, huh?

Do the ball valves allow you to regulate the amount of water flowing through so you're not just relying on the pump capacity?

Thanks!
Christi

 

[EdKruzel]

The durso stands are mounted in the overflow boxes so as to raise the water level and keep it from crashing to the bottom of the box, thus reducing noise.

If the volume of water is too large for the skimmer, then it will be inefficient as the water will pass quicker than what can be skimmed.

The ball valves are placed after the overflow boxes and before the oulet into the sump.
This will allow the water to be restricted enough to even out the lesser output of the opposing side.

Ed

 

[Spuds725]

I have a home made recirculating skimmer (It was made by someone else at their home, not mine)-- it does alot better with low flow.

I bought my tank used and my set up is kind of strange.

The tank is drilled in the bottom for a 3/4" bulkhead-- I have a PVC pipe run up to the water surface (is at one end of the tank) with a larger strainer at the top (to prevent clogging)--- I have this feeding my skimmer. In addition I have a CPR overflow CS50 rated for up to 300 GPH. I have a return pump capable of about 200 GPH on a tank 135 gallons. I am contrary to most people and rund a low flow through my sump-- from what I've read its just a waste of power.

I adjust the flow to my skimmer by raising or lowering the height of my CPR overflow (it has these little adusting screws to raise or lower it) and this does give me pretty fine flow control... I have a valve that I could use to throttle the flow but due to my low flow and the fact that CPR overflows are not that reliable, I leave it open... if my siphon breaks the pipe feeding my skimmer can handle all my flow and I won't have a flood.

A recirculting skimmer will run better on pretty low flow-- I have my set at under 100 GPH (about 1/2 my flow) and it works real well....

Here is a pic of it before installation--

I modded it slightly--there is only a single inlet (rather then a Tee) and I added a drain off my collection cup for when I get lazy-- I have a few other mods in mind that should help-- I've only had it running a few months.

Euroreef makes several recirculating skimmers--- I'm sure there are others..... but they are pretty expensive-- if you are a good DIYer then you can save a ton of money on a skimmer

HTH

 

[reefbaby]

Hey Spuds,

Thanks for the comments!

A question though....if you have an overflow at the base of the tank, why do you also have a CPR overflow? Does only the flow from the overflow go into your skimmer and the CPR overflow feeds into the sump?

I was also planning on going with a slower flow through the sump. CaptBunzo had recommended about 4500lph (1200gph) - which is 3X my tank size. I've seen that the AE Technologies ETSS Downdraft skimmers are capable of that flow and they are slightly cheaper than the Euroreefs...

Do you think that you get more proteins being skimmed out by being plumbed in-line or do you think an overflow into a sump with an external skimmer could be just as efficient? I'm certainly not set on the system being an in-line skimmer; I just want to get the best protein skimming possible.

Cheers,
Christi

 

[reefbaby]

by the way...can you recommend any good links to DIY skimmers??

 

[Spuds725]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6499259#post6499259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefbaby
A question though....if you have an overflow at the base of the tank, why do you also have a CPR overflow? Does only the flow from the overflow go into your skimmer and the CPR overflow feeds into the sump?

I originally just used the overflow box feeding my sump where my Aqua C urchin was until I got my above skimmer installed....

I was originally planning on going with a bigger overflow and about 500 GPH of sump flow total-- I already had the siphon/overflow box in my old tank so I just added it to my new tank when I moved the fish over-- also I can take out my protein skimmer (shut the valve and disconnect the unions)-- both the overflow box and the stand pipe skim water off the surface-- the overflow box goes to my sump, the remainder through the PVC "stand" pipe feeds the skimmer.... I did find that the stand pipe is alot louder (sucking sound) when getting my full flow so by having both I have fine control of my skimmer flow and its quieter (so I just left it installed)-- I sleep better having 2 independent ways for water to get to my sump-- they both work fine so the chances of losing them both at the same time is pretty low.... I would have drilled my tank, for bigger hole(s)-- but had no way of knowing if it was tempered or not-- I bought the tank used from one who also bought it used (a 3rd hand tank)..

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6499259#post6499259 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefbaby
Do you think that you get more proteins being skimmed out by being plumbed in-line or do you think an overflow into a sump with an external skimmer could be just as efficient? I'm certainly not set on the system being an in-line skimmer; I just want to get the best protein skimming possible.
[/B]

I honestly don't know about this question-- there are multiple principles involved with skimmers.... from what I've read, you have to weigh the tank turnover rate against the skimmer also-- the recirculating skimmers are constantly adding more air to the mix and IMO can pull out more dissolved organics from the water just from having a longer contact time--- but if you don't have sufficient exchange with the tank they all won't make it to the skimmer-- there should be an optimum point where you have sufficient flow (skimmer tank exchange) without the water having too low of a contact time with the air bubbles--- thats kind of the principle of the large/tall skimmers people have-- trying to increase both of them.... I don't know if there is a benefit from running a skimmer inline then one drawing from a sump (other then you don't need a pump to get water throught the skimmer).... I'm not sure if I answered your question or not...

I found this article regarding skimmers pretty informational about what is actually occuring and ways to accomplish this...--

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-06/fm/feature/index.php

I also found the protein skimmer production improvement thread to be very informational--- http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=554786

It will take you a few days to read it though...

HTH...