skimmer suggestions needed for a weird tank

[FishWife1]

I am doing maintenance on a PITA set up in a hospital emergency room. When this set up was in the design stage the people who did the carpentry did not take the advice of the folks who would actually be setting up and maintaining the tank. I wasn't involved at the time so had no input whatsoever. So now we have aa 30" tall tank that is built halfway into a cabinet (impossible to clean the sides with magnets, next to impossible to reach all the way down the sides with a long-handled scraper - but they want the sides clean and clear). There is plenty of room under the tank, probably 48"x36"x18" but there is no door or anyway to get under the tank - so no sump. Behind the tank there is maybe 1"- 2" space, definitely not enough for a HOB skimmer. All of the equipment; timers, powerstrips, wires, fans, etc., are crammed in the canopy which is solid 1" thick maple with no holes of any kind for heat to escape. when I said this tank is a PITA I wasn't kidding.

Here are the specs:

Tank - custom glass 190 gal.
no sump
large "Freedom Filter" skimmer
2X 250 w MH bulbs
1X 65W NO actinic
2 MJ 900 PHs
no heater, no thermometer (broken by a patient)
4 Radio Shack fans
3/8" thick glass tops over tank openings with maybe 1/4" gap around

I've been having nothing but trouble with this tank - if the water level drops even a little bit the surface skimmer doesn't work and the top of the water is disgusting. If the level is even a little bit too high it doesn't work either. A Condy (not my idea... ) got sucked into the skimmer intake, every coral was dead within 48 hours - the fish survived. I've had to replace the entire Freedom Filter 3 times for various pump failures, including the pump falling off the intake - not very impressive.

Since the Condy poisoning event I have been doing medium water changes a couple of times a week and have had the lights running alternately just 4 hours each per day. I'm hoping to prevent a huge outbreak of cyano.

Today when I went by I began to clean the skimmer cup. When my hand touched the water I couldn't believe how hot it was. It must have been 90 degrees or close to it. The fish are still alive so in order to not have a fish stew by evening, I cut the lights, removed the glass tops, aimed the skimmer output at the surface and left the canopy open. A single 250W mh had been on for 1 1/2 hours and there is no heater. the only thing that could be heating the water is the filter pump which I think is equivalent to a Mag 7 or 9. The glass, 3/4" thick, was very warm to the touch.

I think I have done everything I can at this point other than pulling the filter/skimmer and the only reason I haven't done that is because it provides the only real circulation and water break. My boss, who is much taller and stronger than I am, is going by soon to try to determine if the problem is the skimmer pump.

I want to replace the Freedom filter with another in-tank skimmer since we can't really set up anything else due to the configuration of the stand and canopy. The only one I know and trust is Tunze but I want to be able to give my boss all the information and choices possible since this will be coming out of his pocket.

Now that you have read this book, does anyone know of any other GOOD in-tank skimmers besides Tunze? What I'd really like to do is break the whole thing down and turn it into a cool cichlid tank but I don't think the hospital honchos would go along with it.

Seriously, this tank is more work and more trouble than all of the others I maintain put together.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Laurie

 

[barjam]

Stop maintaining it? I assume you are running a small business maintaining tanks and if this one costs you more in the way of time than it is actually making you cut your losses.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Man, that is a whole host of problems and the skimmer is IMO not the biggest one.

As far as skimmer suggestions go, the Tunzes are probably your best bet. There really aren't a lot of options for in-tank skimmers unfortunately. They are good skimmers and will certainly do much better than the Freedom Filters, however. I think the 9010 will serve that tank well. Other options would be the DAS BX line (www.petorama.net). The BX-2 would probably work. Deltet (www.deltecusa.us) makes a similar series called the Turbo, but IMO they are basically the same thing as the DAS and far more expensive. Either of these choices would be a good deal bulkier than the Tunzes, but they might also be able to handle a larger bioload depending upon which models you are comparing. The nice thing about any of these options is that they are pretty low in terms of energy consumption.

Just a few other suggestions. Get rid of the glass covers on the tank and drill some holes in the canopy if you can. This should greatly help the heat issues. Of course, you will also increase the evaporation rate so you might want to look into setting up an auto top-off. Also, that tank needs more circulation than 2 MJ900s. Look into getting a few Tunze streams or Hydor Koralias if they are looking to not spend as much. Considering that they are planning to set this up as a reef tank, I don't see the reasoning in using inferior/insufficient equipment that will just lead to coral deaths.

 

[FishWife1]

Totally, totally agree. I was not happy when I saw those glass tops. I have suggested 3-4 2" diameter holes drilled in the top to let the heat escape. Right now the fans are just moving hot air around. Unfortunately there is no way to set up an auto top-off . The canopy is about 18" high and 4' long. there is a narrow shelf that runs the length of it and that's where all the electrical stuff is crammed. They have several people who rotate feeding the tank. Maybe we can persuade them to top-off a couple of gallons daily when they feed.

If it was my business I probably would be persuaded to drop them as clients - really no fault of their own, but definitely a money loser due to their poor planning and not listening to advice. Unfortunately, it is the only hospital in the area and word would definitely get around if we messed them over.

I am going to suggest a Tunze to my boss. At least it will be reliable.

Thanks,

Laurie

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Unfortunately, this sounds like a loosing situation. The whole bit about them rotating feeding, seems to me that this will result in drastic over-feeding. Everyone will want to feed the pretty fishies and the nutrient load will likely skyrocket. I would suggest that they stick to easier stuff like softies.

Do you guys eat the cost of putting in new equipment like skimmers? I didn't realize that it works that way.

 

[kodyboy]

Well I was thinking tunze as well, but here is another idea. Why not pull the tank out a bit (can that be done?) or if not what about adding a door underneath and then adding a lifereef overflow sump or at least an auto top-off of some kind? Getting access to the space below the tank and having a little room behind could easily net a sump and a much easier time for you, but you probably thought of that already. I would also drill the hood for some ventilation as that is the only way the heat will escape. The koralia/tuze nanostreams are a good idea for some water movement and maybe replacing the halide with T5s would reduce some heat as well.
I think if it was me I would insist on the hospital ponying up for some work on the tank to allow a sump or I would dump then as a client.

 

[purebullet417]

if you can get a hang on overflow on there cut out a pannel and make it removable so you can get under there

 

[rsw686]

You don't need a skimmer to be successful. You do need water flow through the tank. Ditch the crap filter and install two or three Hydor Koralia #4's. Drill the canopy and install fans. Replace the heater and thermometer.

As far as feeding you need to have one or two people feed the fish. They need to know to only feed a small amount. Might be better to get an automatic feeder.

 

[Rwinfrey]

Don't get the hydor pumps the magnet will be a pain get the tunze nano's have better magnet if you have such a heat problem get some t-5 nova extreme's if you are on a budget you can get them reconditioned. Tunze is probably the right choise here but the lifereef HOB pretty much sits on the top of the tank.Best of luck to you with this set up sounds scary:eek1:

 

[FishWife1]

Thanks, all. Your input has supported everything that I have been suggesting. I think we will have to eat the cost of a new skimmer and powerheads - after all, they are the ones the company supplied with the initial start up money. But as far as design flaws on the customer's part (stand/canopy) I'm hoping any modifications will be taken care of by the customer.

As far as the feeding goes, we have no control over it. I make suggestions when I go in, i.e., seaweed in a veggie clip daily for the oh-so-skinny Tang, and they have been doing it. They seem to be pretty conscientious and haven't been overfeeding.

If this was my own tank and I had made these mistakes I would just tear it down and start over but I don't know what the folks involved here will opt to do. It's a shame, I love visiting all of my other customers but I dread the couple of times a week I have to go there - never know what I'm going to find. Oh well, it can't all be simple.


Laurie

 

[1F2FRFBF]

If you haven't done so already, you can always make the suggestion to them that at some point in the future they need to strongly consider having the tank re-done. It sounds like there's a long list of problems you can give them, and while there are short-term "band-aids" you can slap on now, in the long run the poor planning in the design of the tank housing will continue to create problems for maintenance, and therefore make for a poor quality of life for the tank's inhabitants.

If you have done so already, please disregard this message. :lol:

 

[FishWife1]

Hee, love the 1F2F... name. I have a Christmas tree decoration of them hanging in my kitchen.

I agree, these are bandaids at best. My boss, who doesn't claim to know a whole lot about tanks, was wondering why everything seemed to be OK for the 1st 3 months and now its just one problem after another. I told him that it takes time for small problems to build up to big problems in tanks and you might not even notice a problem for a very long time. but then when one thing goes wrong, like the anemone skanking the tank, recovery is difficult, if not impossible, unless you have a really good system.

Thanks - we will keep working on the tank owners.

Laurie