Skin Disease

[Myka]

What the heck is this? Brookynella maybe?

Ammonia 0 (API)
Nitrate undetectable (Salifert)

Four other fish in the tank, no signs of disease on them. Infected fish is eating fine, acting fine, breathing normally. He has a one white "spot" on the top of his dorsal fin. The brown patch has a bit of a white sheen to it. Sounds and looks like Brookynella to me, but I've never seen the skin change color...? Btw, fish is a juvenile, about 1 1/2" long.

I will continue to try to get a better photo, but this is the best one I have so far. He doesn't want to turn the right direction!

 

[Myka]

You can see the lumpy white sheen in this photo:

Other side:

 

[Myka]

There doesn't seem to be any progression of the disease today. The fish is still breathing, acting, and eating normally. I am however leaving my tanks to the maintenance company as usual for a week. This fish is in with some breeders, and I would like to do what I can to prevent this disease from spreading...whatever it is. Any suggestions?

 

[Myka]

The fish is breathing, acting, and eating normally today still. The disease seems to be a bit worse. There is more white "mucous" covering the brown patch on his side. I can't decide whether this is a fungal/bacterial infection or Brookynella. The fish are wild caught, so Brook is a higher possibility than captive bred.

 

[Myka]

I'm going to go ahead and orally treat the fish using Furan 2 on their food which is a broad spectrum gram-positive and gram-negative antibiotic. I'm hoping this might help, and is much less toxic both to me and the fish than using formalin for Brookynella.

 

[JHemdal]

Myka,

I've looked at the images, but nothing definitive comes to mind. With some lesions, there is simply NO way to identify the problem visually...the symptoms overlap. The one thing this resembles to me is Uronema. However, if the fish did have this, and had lesions this large, you would have seen it die within a day, and it wouldn't have still been feeding.

Jay

 

[Myka]

Thank you for replying Jay. The fish still continues to eat. I'm going to add some broad spectrum antibiotics to the feeding tonight. I have Seachem Focus (nitrofurantoin), and API Furan-2 (Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone). I will mix them 5:1 (Focus:Furan), and blend that with some frozen food. I'm hoping this will help. The lesions don't appear to have any redness...they are quite odd.

 

[alprazo]

I would say Uronema too by looking at the photos. It is a tough call. I have had chromis pull through with no treatment looking similar while the rest perished. But a fungal infection is well within my differential. Since the fish is showing signs, I would definitely treat. A formalin dip and topical polymyxin + neomycin might not be a bad idea. The best way to find out is to scrape the fish and look under a scope with a gram and/or GMS stain. Easier said then done without a lab.

 

[Myka]

Uronema is a new one to me. I did some researching, but I didn't find much info. I don't have Formalin on hand, and couldn't find any. I'm going to order some for future use.

I fed the fish mysis dipped in Focus and Furan-2. I will see what changes (if any) are present tomorrow. Without any Formalin there isn't much more I can do.

I don't want to treat the tank with anything too harsh since there is a deep rubble/sand bed in there and there are a pair of breeders being housed in there right now as well. I would like to keep this rubble "reef safe" if at all possible. I don't want any possible internal damages from harsh drugs. So far the other fish are unaffected. I'm hoping it stays that way.

I have some other tanks that I could set up a QT for the little guy if really needed, but with my employment being out of province treating is difficult. Now that I think of it, I should probably quarantine him away from the other fish...

 

[bigreefnutt]

Well in order to treat Uronema it should be done with a combination of parasiticides along with freshwater dips. Prepare a freshwater dip with Ph equal to the ph of the water in which the fish will be transfered after treatment. Dip the fish for 3 to 15 min depending on the species. Then 24 to 36 hours afterwards and then treat the fish with either formaldehyde at 15 to 25 ppm or with a formalin/malachite green combonation. A min of 3 treatments is recamended.

 

[JHemdal]

The problem with Uronema in fish that it often begins as an inter-cellular parasite (well, an opportunistic protozoan in any event), so dips never reach the root of the problem. I've tried DMSO with formalin - to try and get the formalin into where the Uronema was - but the infection continued pretty much unabated.

Chloroquine *might* be a better choice - marine fish drink water, and maybe enough of the Chloroquine is swallowed to bring the level of it up in the blood high enough to kill the Uronema. It works in a petri dish - in real life, Uronema is still a tough nut to crack. Also, I wouldn't use Choroquine in your specific set up as the "cost" to the tank would be greater than the cost of the fish (i.e. I don't know what it would do to your pair of breeders, or the rubble rock).

But like I said, once you see lesions that large, the fish is usually dead within a day, so I doubt that it is Uronema. Oral broad spectrum antibiotics seems to be a reasonable treatment to me....

Jay

 

[Myka]

Thank you guys for your recommendations. Your participation is appreciated.

Today the fish is showing signs of clamped fins, but otherwise active, eating, and breathing normal.

I am having some trouble getting the antibiotics to stick to the food. This little guy is only accepting frozen food at this time. I was just dipping each pre-thawed mysis in the powder and feeding one mysis at a time hoping he would grab one before all the antibiotics fell off. That's quite hit or miss. I'm going to try blending some mysis with the antibiotics, and then separate into bite-size portions, refreeze, and feed each little bite without thawing. Any better ideas?

If it is Uronema, how contagious is this to the other fish he is in with? One of the breeders damaged her mouth last week, and that has healed up well, so I am optimistic that whatever it is, it might not be overly infectious.

 

[Myka]

There is no improvement this afternoon, and his appetite has diminished a little. If he is not in better condition tomorrow at noon when I leave for work I will euthanize him.

 

[alprazo]

For the future - abx in food is a hard sell. You need to either treat the water of the tank or in larger fish, intramuscular injection.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[Myka]

The little guy was dead this morning.

alprazo, I have had much better personal success treating fish with antibiotics orally rather than in the water column. I have read lots of instances where other people have better success as well. From my understanding, fish don't absorb the antibiotics through their skin very well. Either way, treating the water column is/was not an option as I do not want to medicate the breeders in that tank.

I am happy to be done messing with the antibiotics though as I am very allergic to them. I have had mild reactions ever since bringing the antibiotics into the house even though I am careful and use gloves.

 

[Myka]

Well, the other two Orchids now have this skin disease. I hope they somehow don't give it to the breeding pair of Bangaii who are also inhabiting the tank. I can't find Formalin, can't even find anyone who can order it. I'm only home for a day, so I can't treat the fish. Sad to say they probably won't make it.

 

[alprazo]

National fish pharmaceuticals

Fhisyfarmacy.com

 

[alprazo]

National fish pharmaceuticals

Fhisyfarmacy.com

 

[bucky1168]

Dr fosters and smith also carries Formalin. Only 5 bucks + shipping.

 

[Myka]

Thanks guys! Fishyfarmacy only ships via FedEx which will cost a small fortune in brokerage fees at the border. I'm also not entirely sure you can ship Formalin across the border without a business license...?

However, I have found a possible source at the local university.

Now that I have probably located some Formalin, I can just hope it will do the trick for this weird skin disease. Since I am able to see the disease in its beginning stages this time where last time it was quite progressed by the time I saw it (I work out of province) I'm leaning towards it being Brookynella, in which case the Formalin should fix them up.

I'm also home for a day more than expected now too, so that gives me a bit more time to try to medicate them. I know repeated Formalin dips are generally needed, but I'm hoping something is better than nothing.