Sky high nitrate issues!

[Glitch23]

Hi all, first time salty tank keeper here.
I've had my Dennerle Marinus 60L running for about 5 months now and all seemed to be going ok up until a week or so ago when the nitrates went to over 100ppm (checked twice with a salifert test kit.) I managed to get it down to around 50ppm last night after 3 25L water changes over two days, but it's up again today. I've lost 2 cleaner shrimp over the past three weeks and a mini maxi anemone after the first lot of water changes. Plus i've started getting green hair algae appearing, which i'm manually removing.

I've done;
Multiple water changes over a few days.
Removed the live rock and rinsed it all in tank water to remove detritus and check for dead things.
Vacuumed the sandbed each day.
Rehomed 3 fish a few days ago.
Added more Purigen and carbon to the HOB.

Running the tank with a cheapo HOB with carbon, filter floss (changing every other day), Purigen, Phoros and live rock rubble.
9lbs of live rock.
4cm sandbed (I think i may need to remove about 1-2cms?)
extra pump with wavemaker attachment.
Added hydor circulator.
various macro algaes. (Might add more)
using a trusty turkey baster to remove rock detritus each day.


salinity at 1.026, thinking of going down to 1.025. (never sure which is best)
temp 25.
phosphates showing zero with a salifert test kit.
Lights are on for 10hrs per day now, up from 8.
10L water change each week with substrate clean and all filters cleaned thoroughly.

Livestock;
1 peppermint shrimp. (yay aptasia!)
1 Watchman and pistol shrimp pair.
1 hitchhiker pistol shrimp that i found whilst cleaning, who i need to rehome. (I dont want the poor guy being alone!)
1 Anemone crab.
1 pom pom crab.
various soft corals and tube worms.
CUC. (2 blue leg hermits, 3 red leg hermits, 1 halloween hermit, 2 small emerald crabs, 3 nassarius snails, 3 turbo snails.)

Now feeding a very small pinch of Vitalis Aegis flake and a tiny portion of H2Ocean Reef paste each day and 1/4 block of mysis for target feeding along with Reef-roids once a week.


Any help on getting the nitrates down and staying down would be greatly appreciated. At a guess, taking sand out would help. Is the HOB possibly not helping? Is the salinity too high too?

 

[anthonys51]

the hob filter is useless in a saltwater tank. it actually adds nitrate into the tank if not cleaned often enough. unhook it. and get a protein skimmer (you can get a hob protein skimmer if no sump, there not as good but they work better than nothing, dont go cheap, buy the best you can afford) . i see you have 2 circulation pumps. make sure they position where the flow is around the whole tank. plus you probably have high phosphates also so test for those, that causes gha not nitrates

 

[joshua_00030]

The deep sand looks pretty dirty. If you don't want to add more sand sifters you could take some of it out. Pistol shrimp like to have burrows though, making more sand a nice add on. As stated by Anthony you want a protein skimmer over a HoB filter. These remove your organic wastes before they have a chance to become nitrates.

 

[CStrickland]

On top of what Anthony said, I'd stop feeding the coral. Softies don't need it, but algae really likes it. I'd just put in as much as the goby can eat once a day, of something you can track that he eats, as opposed to the paste that is dissolving a lot of unusable nutrients into the water. Mayb a little extra twice a week for the shrimps and crabs.

The phos is reading zero cause the algae is taking it up, keep up with the manual removal. Vacuum the sand every day is excessive, are you getting dirty looking water each time? It might help to change your flow around to get more toward the bottom to reduce settling. From the pics it looks like your current is mostly at the top. Like the filtered water is just swirling around up there and the dirty water at the bottom isn't getting cleaned.

 

[Sk8r]

I feel your pain. Stop feeding entirely for a week or more. If one goby can't forage off what's already in there he's not up to the job. I'm battling this myself, and am seeing some hopeful results with a product from SeaChem, NoPox, but see if you can use a siphon to quietly (without stirring it up) siphon up your next water change from the detritus-laden sand, and don't kick up that sandbed: just try to suck it clean from underneath. COntinue water changes.

 

[anthonys51]

yes i argee with the others , i would tone down your feeding and only feed your goby for the next month or so. See if this gets your nitrates under control. i personal dont like seachem or other products like this. I feel like they are a bandaid not a cure. if your using these products your doing something incorrectly to throw off the balance of your tank. try doing it the natural way, your tank will love you for it in the long run.
the hard part though is every tank is different and make sure you take your time.

i started off feeding my tank very little firat 4 month, then next 4 months little more, then next 4 a little more, now i am feeding a lot and dont even run gfo and have no nitrates or phosphates. good luck

 

[Sk8r]

When you have too much nutrient in your tank, chemistry is hard to haul back: I lost several fish, almost all worms, microlife, cheato, during an 8 day power-out on a reef. Getting the place cleaned up again is kind of like cleaning up after a sewer incident---you've got way more biology than you want, and you need the right bacteria working to process what's piled up in your tank. The NoPox is a lot like dosing vinegar, only it also seems to contain a few traces and some bacteria. I'm in process with it right now, after trying everything including massive water changes and manual cleaning, and it does look promising, but the first thing you have to do is stop pouring more biomass into the tank and try to get rid of the excess.

 

[anthonys51]

well yes if its code red mode, then sure do what you have to do. i might of misread, i thought he was just having nitrate problems didnt know it was a code red

plus op no more mini maxi anemone. while i am not one to tell people what to put into their tanks. if i were you i would wait till about one year of stability with your tank until you try any anemone again

 

[Glitch23]

Thanks all! Defoo think the bioload was too much with 4 active fish in there, so just keeping the watchman and the others have gone back to the LFS for store credit. I've only been doing the drastic stuff since noticing the huge spike. I've been out of action for a few weeks due to a shoulder injury, so wanted to get things back in the green.

Do you think removing the HOB would help things? The issue with the Marinus tank is there's no back chamber for filtration etc, just one biocirculator, hence using the HOB for purigen, carbon etc. I've been given a kent marine nano skimmer by a friend, but it was throwing micro bubbles into the tank from a gap in the side of the casing which he hasnt been able to fix, it's happened on both he bought! Plus it's a nightmare to tune in and i cant keep the lid on the tank. :/

i've got some red sea No-po-x, which i might try dosing from today once the HOB is taken off, then move the biocirculator right into the corner with the outlet facing right and move the powerhead further down, hopefully that'll give more flow around the problem areas. plus add a few marine-pur bacteria balls. Maybe?

with the not feeding, will the duncans and gorgonians be ok with no food? i was told they need some kind of food substitutes at least once a week? (Of course, advice from LFS has often been wrong heh.)

After losing the nem, I'll def not be adding another for a good while, that was £30 of money i dont have now haha.

 

[salty joe]

Are you using RO/DI water?

 

[Glitch23]

Yup, mixed at the lfs.

 

[Roccus]

I see a few things here...the tank is @ 5 months... tough time...I remember it well... denitrifying bacteria hasn't established... balances in the tank are being sought... and the nasty's always seem to take over first... you say you washed the live rock... was this in salt water?... it is possible that you killed even more living matter compounding your problem as it decayed if you washed in fresh water... totally agree with the others about the feeding ... too much for what you have in there On HOB filters... I have had ( and still run on one tank) success with HOB filters ... in this particular set up I have a 20G bow front with a flame scallop... bubble coral..frog spawn ..cabbage leather and an anemone.. I also have fire and peppermint shrimp as well as an emerald crab and turbo and nassuaris snail... and 2 purple fire fish ... an Aqueon HOB run in conjunction with a CPR industries back pack skimmer keep the water crystal clear and nutrient free..or the scallo would have succumbed long ago as they cannot tolerate high nitrates... I run a stack of foam filter... carbon... poly pad for Phosphate and a small bag of rock rubble.. the tank has 10lbs of live rock... the sponge gets rinsed weekly.. the pad replace weekly.. carbon rinsed in TANK water and replaced monthly..it is important to note that the tank pretty much gets polluted twice a day..with a combo of phyto and zoo plankton to keep the scallop alive.. the fire fish get a tiny pinch of flake food or several ( yes I count them) small Mysis shrimp ONCEA A DAY...I also do 5 gallon a week water changes and have several species of macro algae in the tank.. so HOB filters do work IF you are vigilant and assist them with a skimmer... that particular tank has been running over a year and despite some predictions.. the scallop is alive and well and still sending electric blue waves across its tentacles..the bubble has almost doubled in size and I'm going to have to remove the frogspawn to my main reef because "they" don't like each other.. vacuuming the sand lightly if you wish... but defiantly as others have said move the current... I like to see it sweep the bottom from both directions then force the water to the top as they meet.. every tank is different.. every situation unique...if you read each reply .. think it over you'll find your solution... take it slow and don't get frustrated.. don't do anything rash... think through each step... eventually it'll all work out.. I have 4 tanks.. each has it's own personality and problems.. solving the riddles is half the fun...and reward.

 

[Glitch23]

Thanks Roccus! It's certainly using my problem solving skills, but i'm so used to freshwater, it's tricky making the switch easily.

The rock was waved about in old water from the tank, just to remove any detritus from nooks and crannies. I've just realised one major change recently in the tank with regard to filtering etc, I'd run out of Polyfilter and replaced with the purigen bag, so getting some of that on order asap!

 

[anthonys51]

Rocus that was well worded and great information. Good job

 

[Volcmreefer]

Test your lfs water. From personal experience that sometimes they "forget" to change out filters.

 

[Glitch23]

They were changing the filters last week, the water I bought today had a 25 tds, the week before it was 100+! So hopefully the deep clean and decent RO will help.

I keep taibee shrimp, so I get quite anal about checking tds as soon as I get in.

Everything's looking a load happier today, hopefully I can keep them that way now.

 

[mitch91175]

Yup, mixed at the lfs.

I would say also test your water that you get from the LFS. Sometimes those guys don't do what they are supposed to do and you could be getting stuff from their RO/DI water. Also test it for Phospates to make sure that they are changing out their filters.

 

[Greg 45]

If you all would like to solve these nitrate issues . Look into purchasing a sulfur reactor. I have tried pellets carbon dosing standing on my head multiple water change. Enough already , they work and work well .

 

[Glitch23]

The issue is a lack of space. The Marinus doesn't have a sump and as its only 60L, there's not much space for extras in the tank itself.

 

[Greg 45]

reactor

reactor

This is the reactor on a 1200 gallon system at 0 nitrates started with blood red on api test kit .