Slaying the beast. Planning the system of my dreams.

[jgross1]

Well, I guess I will just jump right in. I am planning my new system and am looking for any advise people might have on systems of, or at least close to, this type. Construction will hopefully begin next summer, wallet permiting, and I want to hopefully, with everyone's help, foresee and plan against problems before the system is completely set up. Alright, that said, this is the tentative plan of what the system will look like.

The entire system is going to be inwall as a room divider. It is on the bottem floor so all of the equipment will have to be located inside the wall. To facilitate this, the wall is going to be widened to 32".

The main tank will be a 290 gallon reef 72"x30"x31"

Offset on each side of the show tank will be Two 75 gallon "Aggressive Species" tanks 24"x30"x24"

Below will be a 180 gallon Sump with a Refugarium (~50 gallons)

Not all of the equipment decisions are made and any input on those fronts would be greatly appreciated.

My main concern right now is with the humidity that this system is going to generate. The 290g show tank is going to be modeled on a reef crest with a reef slope behind it. Therefore, the system will have a relatively aggressive surge system (~20g) and so the whole system is going to show alot of evaporation. Under the system is going to be a linoleum "bucket" with a draining system to keep occasional spills under control. The entire area will probably be boxed in with heavily laquered, pressure-treated plywood, but I still need to divine an effective method of removing all that humidity from the contained space.

Since all of this is still speculative, changes are still possible for every part of the system and I would really appreciate the expertise/aquired knowledge of anyone who has had this type of system, or some insight into succeeding with a completely inwall design. Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[ruiny]

Not to try and change your mind, but why the 2 aggressive tanks. Unless they are for seahorses or the like they will be a little small for an aggressive tank for say a grouper or lions. If it were me I'd either go with one extra large reef, (my choice). Or slide the reef down and get a 200 ish gal for the aggressives.

As far as humidiy goes, exhaust outside. through a air exchanger.

 

[jgross1]

I was thinking one that would house one P. volitans and another with one Snowflake moray. How big of a tank do you think that I would need to keep that kind of species with coral and a cleanup crew, the real issue. The problem is that I have always wanted this type of fish and my love for coral has always prohibited having them. The other thing that I could possibly do is up the size of the two other tanks. Frankly, when I am considering tanks of this size, a gallon here or there really isn't going to affect the final design.

As far as the air exchanger, the system will have a direct connection with the outside wall on one end of the tank. It will also probably be directly ducted to the central air conditioning of the room. Do you think that the air exchanger will be enough, or will other more aggressive measures be necessary? I have heard alot of bad rap about humidifiers and the such, but I am not completely sold on the idea.

Thanks alot for your input. I would also like to apologize ahead of time if I saty something that sounds ridiculous, but I am living abroad in Brazil right now and haven't spoken English for about 6 months. So if I say something objectionable, it is probably just the Portuguese and nothing to worry about.

 

[ruiny]

For lions or eels. Just go with one tanks for the aggressive and put them togther. The bigger the better. It sounds like you have 120 inches to use and the reef is to be 72 inches leaving 48 for the aggresive 48 x 30x 31 is 193 gal and would be good for those fish, esp since neither of them are fast swimmers. But again if it were me I'd go with a 120x30x31 for 480 gal reef and love every minute of it.

 

[Flobex]

is it going to be a shared sump between the 3 tanks? because it may be difficult to keep low nitrates for your reef with 2 aggressive tanks plumbed into the same system.

 

[Flobex]

is it going to be a shared sump between the 3 tanks? because it may be difficult to keep low nitrates for your reef with 2 aggressive tanks plumbed into the same system.

 

[jgross1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8490493#post8490493 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ruiny
For lions or eels. Just go with one tanks for the aggressive and put them togther. The bigger the better. It sounds like you have 120 inches to use and the reef is to be 72 inches leaving 48 for the aggresive 48 x 30x 31 is 193 gal and would be good for those fish, esp since neither of them are fast swimmers. But again if it were me I'd go with a 120x30x31 for 480 gal reef and love every minute of it.

You hit it right on the head. That is about the distance that I have to work with. I can push it a little to either side if I have to, but I would rather not because there is a door that opens into the room and I would rather not that someone throws the door open and puts a door knob right through the tank. That is great advise to move to one larger aggressive tank. Since there probably wouldnt be any compatibility issues, it would definetely simplify the plumbing. Thanks.

 

[jgross1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8492173#post8492173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flobex
is it going to be a shared sump between the 3 tanks? because it may be difficult to keep low nitrates for your reef with 2 aggressive tanks plumbed into the same system.

Yeah, the sump will be shared. I understand your well deserved concern, but with the aggressive system, there will only be 2 fish and most likely there will be very few, or no, fish in the reef tank. Since there will only be the two fish and a lot of corals sharing around 440 gallons of tank and 180 gallons of sump, I think that it wont cause too many problems. I am working on a diagram of the system right now that should help give a better idea of what I am looking at. Then it should be much easier for everyone to help me out. Thanks for your input.

 

[ruiny]

If you really don't want fish in the reef than just put the lion and eel in the reef. Both are fine with corals, it is the crabs, shrimp and small fish they will kill. No need for an seperate aggressive tank. Also I think it would look that much nicer to have the lion and eel in a setting with the coral. And if you wanted you could still add some other coral safe aggressives or larger reef fish , like a nice hawk fish or larger tangs. And I agree with your filtering comment that with 400+ gallons of water and only a couple of fish you will be fine. Just vacume the bottom of the tank with water changes.

 

[jgross1]

That sounds great. Since I am looking at having about 70 gallons of refugarium in the sump. That big of an area should provide room for enough smaller cleaners that I can leave them out of the main tank. I agree that it would definetely be a very impressive tank if I had that 480g reef tank with only a few large, aggressive fish swimming around in it. Not to mention, once again, that it would really minimize the plumbing headache that I will face with having a system that large as a room divider. On that topic, I was wondering if it would be possible to fit a big enough overflow on just one side of the tank to provide enough drainage for the whole system. I have that 20g surge device in mind and I don't think that it would make sense to have an overflow on the same side that the surge comes in. With the smaller (290g) tank I didn't think that it would be a problem since the tank is pretty wide (30"). But if I move to a much bigger tank (480g), which would then be 120" long, as oposed to 72", I worry that I won't be able to rig a big enough overflow. I plan on running about 2400gph through the sump (20gp min. through the surge and 1200gph through seperate entry points) and I am not sure of the most effective way to make that flow possible.

 

[jgross1]

Alright. I have the general diagram that I made before we talked about consoladating the sytstem into one bigger one. The main difference would be that the main tank would be alot longer, the two side tanks would not be there, and there would be a lot less plumbing. The plumbing lines in the diagram are not supposed to mark the exact spots where the pipes will run, they are just there to give an idea of the direction of water flow through the system. I will try to update it with the new idea sometime today, but feel free to comment on the general idea of the system while I am working on it. Keep in mind that this is just a rough scetch, I plan to break it down into a more detailed, and ultimately more useful diagram as soon as I have some time.

 

[999sterling]

This seems similar to what I'm dreaming up myself. But it sounds like your at least a year ahead of me in the proccess.

It sounds like you are planning on not haveing any cleaners in the reef itself. Only in the refugium. How are you going to keep it all clean?

I'm only asking because I've never been able to keep a reef cleen and clear of algae without some helpful crabs around to clean the algae from between the corrals.

 

[ruiny]

A question for you. You said that the tank is to be a room divider. Will it be viewable from both sides? If so I'd try and increase the front to back size. On the overflow issue, can you have an overflow at each end. If so I'd go with 2 overflows. If not than the one will need to be larger with a good sized box.

My 280 is 3 sides viewable making the overflow at one end and the tunzes all at that end making it a little trickey to get good flow but it is possible and makes for a good looking display.

 

[kentrob11]

I think your living room will look like the wall of a fish store. I've seen setups like that and while it seems cool in concept, it doesn't look that great in person.

 

[jgross1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8503119#post8503119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 999sterling
This seems similar to what I'm dreaming up myself. But it sounds like your at least a year ahead of me in the proccess.

It sounds like you are planning on not haveing any cleaners in the reef itself. Only in the refugium. How are you going to keep it all clean?

I'm only asking because I've never been able to keep a reef cleen and clear of algae without some helpful crabs around to clean the algae from between the corrals.

That is kind of still up for grabs. If the entire system is consolodated to one tank, then there will be two-three aggressive species in the tank that would have a great time eating any crabs/clams that I tried to introduce to the system. I haven't completely resolved how this could be compensated for, and maybe since the tank will be fairly large, I might be able to get away with having those aggressive species and still maintain a low key cleaning crew. If anyone out there has suggestions on that front they would be very appreciated.

 

[jgross1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8503637#post8503637 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ruiny
A question for you. You said that the tank is to be a room divider. Will it be viewable from both sides? If so I'd try and increase the front to back size. On the overflow issue, can you have an overflow at each end. If so I'd go with 2 overflows. If not than the one will need to be larger with a good sized box.

It would be visible from both sides. I could take it a little bit wider, maybe up to about 40", but the problem is that as soon as it starts to get much bigger than that the two rooms start to get pretty small. I could run overflows at both ends, maybe with a smaller one on the surge side. The flow should be pretty good. I saw a tank at an aquarium shop in seattle and it had a surge system like the one that I am planning with a couple of powerheads pointed up at the entry point. Every time that thing cam crashing down it produced this rolling tube of bubbles that really looked like a wave breaking on the surface. I am trying to replicate it, but with a design kind of modeled off the system in "Corals" by Eric Borneman. I will draw up a scematic when I have some time.

 

[jgross1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8503794#post8503794 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kentrob11
I think your living room will look like the wall of a fish store. I've seen setups like that and while it seems cool in concept, it doesn't look that great in person.

What would you suggest?

 

[kentrob11]

First of all, aggressive tanks are pollutant factories, so running those on the same water pool as the reef will cause problems. Aggressives such as lions and such eat large pieces of food and inevitably create more waste, which means nutrient levels are higher. If you had a sump room, you could setup a monster skimmer to deal with this but with everything under stand, it would be really tough to keep things looking nice.

As far as the multiple tanks goes, I would recommend you putting your energy into one single larger tank set up RIGHT- I think you'll find that the impact visually will be MUCH greater. If you want an aggressive tank, go with one one the opposite wall- Even multiple tanks on touching walls tends to look cluttered....

 

[jgross1]

Since starting this forum I have already been convinced that one large tank would ultimately be the better choice. I would have liked to have had another room for the filtration, but unfortunately I do not have one available. Luckily, I do have quite a bit of area to work with. The whole system will be inside a wall that is 13' long. The only reason that I don't want the tank to be any longer than 10' is due to the door opening into the room. That said, that extra 3' can be used to place equipment and other items. Also, the wall is going to be widened. It was originally going to only be 31" wide, but after recieving some good advise I am considering moving to 40". I think that with the tank around 3' off the ground that should provide quite a bit of area to work with. I appreciate your advise and that is precisely why I am asking these questions before I have even considered beginning the project.

 

[kentrob11]

Good deal- I think you're on the right track at this point. 40" width would be great visually and 36" off the ground would give you some good options as far as equipment goes...good luck!