Justin James
New member
Can't wait to see the photos before it goes on the tank.
Solaris Led lighting systems
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
steve the plumb
In Memoriam
looks nice.very clean setup so far
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I am not real impressed with the minimalist packaging... Not impressed at all!
Luckily, no harm, no foul. BeanAnimal
Premium Member
For the price, you would think that these things would be packed in heavy cardboard with quality inserts. That is lightwieght garbage with the cheapest form of support they could come up with. No wonder they are having shipping damage problems.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
That is the picture I seem to see...
Nice guys with good intentions but no idea how to pull it off. They are using overseas manufacturing with little or no quality control and the cheapest of packaging.
At some point it will dawn on them that USA made and attention to detail will warrent the high price that they are charging. I would hate to see the losses they have incurred due to shipping and QC problems. I am rather sure that they would have paid for themselves if they units were made here in the USA by a reputable manufacturer.
Sometimes the desire to eek every penny of profit out of a product causes that product to fall from grace, and no profit is made.
Nice guys with good intentions but no idea how to pull it off. They are using overseas manufacturing with little or no quality control and the cheapest of packaging.
At some point it will dawn on them that USA made and attention to detail will warrent the high price that they are charging. I would hate to see the losses they have incurred due to shipping and QC problems. I am rather sure that they would have paid for themselves if they units were made here in the USA by a reputable manufacturer.
Sometimes the desire to eek every penny of profit out of a product causes that product to fall from grace, and no profit is made.
I am all for "USA MADE", but thats not the end all. Some of the German fixtures are fantastic. I dont really care where its made, as long as you get what you pay for.
Mark
p.s. I ordered a 14" unit for my nano reef. Mine actually caught on fire withing 10 seconds of when I plugged it in. (well...no flames visible, but lots of smoke) I have NEVER had any other electrical product do that. The build quality was akin to K-Mart brands. Needless to say, I got my money back.
Mark
p.s. I ordered a 14" unit for my nano reef. Mine actually caught on fire withing 10 seconds of when I plugged it in. (well...no flames visible, but lots of smoke) I have NEVER had any other electrical product do that. The build quality was akin to K-Mart brands. Needless to say, I got my money back.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I agree Mark...
The problem with China (and the like) is QC. They have state of the art manufacturing and access to great materials and engineers. The problem is that there is NO QC. You almost have to have an agent of your company overseas during the entire manufacturing process or QC gets ignored. Even if you have an agent in the factory, it is sometimes VERY HARD to get them to do things they way YOU want them. Of course the extra attention to detail costs A LOT more money.
If you leave the materials selection and QC parameters to the China Manufacturer, you are going to get screwed. They will make the most profit for the least amount of materials and goods that they can throw at the problem. Being that far away and with trade laws and banking laws.... problems are not easily resolved. In the converse, made here in the USA or even the EU, things are done a lot differently. It is much easier to communicate your needs and inspect your products progress and adjust what is needed.
In this case it has become very obvious that PFO is trying to maximize profit by taking the absolute cheapest manufacturing route that they can get away with.
It appears that almost ALL of the problems are shipping and manufacturing related. That says a LOT about a rather simple product.
The problem with China (and the like) is QC. They have state of the art manufacturing and access to great materials and engineers. The problem is that there is NO QC. You almost have to have an agent of your company overseas during the entire manufacturing process or QC gets ignored. Even if you have an agent in the factory, it is sometimes VERY HARD to get them to do things they way YOU want them. Of course the extra attention to detail costs A LOT more money.
If you leave the materials selection and QC parameters to the China Manufacturer, you are going to get screwed. They will make the most profit for the least amount of materials and goods that they can throw at the problem. Being that far away and with trade laws and banking laws.... problems are not easily resolved. In the converse, made here in the USA or even the EU, things are done a lot differently. It is much easier to communicate your needs and inspect your products progress and adjust what is needed.
In this case it has become very obvious that PFO is trying to maximize profit by taking the absolute cheapest manufacturing route that they can get away with.
It appears that almost ALL of the problems are shipping and manufacturing related. That says a LOT about a rather simple product.
PFO Lighting
New member
Solaris Shipping Boxes
Solaris Shipping Boxes
Bean Animal,
The experts at UPS Testing Laboratory disagree with your opinion on the Solaris boxes.
They have tested and approved our shipping boxes. What this means to the customer is that if UPS damages the product in UPS shipping than UPS will pay for the fixture.
Please see UPS laboratory testing report:
http://www.solarisled.com/Portals/0/ups48.pdf
Patrick Ormiston
PFO Lighting Inc.
Solaris Shipping Boxes
Bean Animal,
The experts at UPS Testing Laboratory disagree with your opinion on the Solaris boxes.
They have tested and approved our shipping boxes. What this means to the customer is that if UPS damages the product in UPS shipping than UPS will pay for the fixture.
Please see UPS laboratory testing report:
http://www.solarisled.com/Portals/0/ups48.pdf
Patrick Ormiston
PFO Lighting Inc.
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From the pictures and the fact the fixture is light weight, I think the packaging is adequate.
I will however agree with Bean Animal on two things:
For the money people spend on it, the packaging can definitely be nicer. A high end product deserves a high end appearance.
And you definitely need a full time QC person trained in the US to have full control of QC issues at the Chinese manufacture. It can be done just not cheap. A good US trained professional in China earns as much as a US worker here.
I will however agree with Bean Animal on two things:
For the money people spend on it, the packaging can definitely be nicer. A high end product deserves a high end appearance.
And you definitely need a full time QC person trained in the US to have full control of QC issues at the Chinese manufacture. It can be done just not cheap. A good US trained professional in China earns as much as a US worker here.
Patrick,
My problem with the PFO light I received was that you knew it was sub-standard many months ago, as evidenced by a couple of YOUR earlier posts and you sold it anyway. As for your customer service, as pleasant as everyone was I spoke with, no effort was ever made to replace my light. I also never heard a single word from you or your company regarding my problem. (your company has my number). If you would have made even the smallest effort (also as as promised in YOUR posts) I would be one of your greatest allies and my problem would have gone un-noticed, unfortunately you have accomplished the exact opposite.
My problem with the PFO light I received was that you knew it was sub-standard many months ago, as evidenced by a couple of YOUR earlier posts and you sold it anyway. As for your customer service, as pleasant as everyone was I spoke with, no effort was ever made to replace my light. I also never heard a single word from you or your company regarding my problem. (your company has my number). If you would have made even the smallest effort (also as as promised in YOUR posts) I would be one of your greatest allies and my problem would have gone un-noticed, unfortunately you have accomplished the exact opposite.
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BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Patrick, UPS approved or not... the packaging looks like the bare minimum to meet the approval. From the numerous posts it would appear that a significant amount of nuisance damage has occurred during shipment. As I said, for the price, it would appear that there is plenty of room for improvement in many areas.
I can only go by the public posts on this subject.
Thank you for the kind response to my posts.
I can only go by the public posts on this subject.
Thank you for the kind response to my posts.
PFO Lighting
New member
Jacmyoung
"the packaging can definitely be nicer. A high end product deserves a high end appearance."
I am very open to suggestions on the outer box. The problem is that currently 95% of the Solaris are being shipped via UPS. UPS beats the crap out of the box. So whether the box looks nice to begin with or not, by the time the box ends up at the end customer it looks bad. Because the boxes can be up to 80" long a full color box becomes extremely expensive. If we put the Solaris in a full color box and then over wrap it with a bigger box than the UPS shipping costs get out of hand. I am definately open for suggestions.
"And you definitely need a full time QC person trained in the US to have full control of QC issues at the Chinese manufacture. It can be done just not cheap. A good US trained professional in China earns as much as a US worker here."
I have been looking for one for awhile. My wife would jump for joy because I wouldn't be making so many trips to china. (I leave again in two weeks.) The quality control is improving dramatically. We are starting the process of getting the factory to be ISO9000 certified. On our last shipment that we started shipping last week, so far all we have heard is that some people are not ventilating the H4 power supplies enough. All the loose screws, scratched lens, ect appear to have been solved.
Mark426, I have responded to your PM.
BeanAnimal, When I post on the newsgroups I try very hard to keep my responses to facts, preferably by an outside unbiased authority. However, I read the newsgroups consistantly. The newsgroup people tell me what I need to know about how to improve the product, what I am doing right, and what needs to change. Almost all of our products have been improved by comments from the newsgroups and/or our customers.
Thank you for your continued support on the Solaris LED light fixture.
Patrick Ormiston
PFO Lighting Inc.
sales@pfolighting.com
"the packaging can definitely be nicer. A high end product deserves a high end appearance."
I am very open to suggestions on the outer box. The problem is that currently 95% of the Solaris are being shipped via UPS. UPS beats the crap out of the box. So whether the box looks nice to begin with or not, by the time the box ends up at the end customer it looks bad. Because the boxes can be up to 80" long a full color box becomes extremely expensive. If we put the Solaris in a full color box and then over wrap it with a bigger box than the UPS shipping costs get out of hand. I am definately open for suggestions.
"And you definitely need a full time QC person trained in the US to have full control of QC issues at the Chinese manufacture. It can be done just not cheap. A good US trained professional in China earns as much as a US worker here."
I have been looking for one for awhile. My wife would jump for joy because I wouldn't be making so many trips to china. (I leave again in two weeks.) The quality control is improving dramatically. We are starting the process of getting the factory to be ISO9000 certified. On our last shipment that we started shipping last week, so far all we have heard is that some people are not ventilating the H4 power supplies enough. All the loose screws, scratched lens, ect appear to have been solved.
Mark426, I have responded to your PM.
BeanAnimal, When I post on the newsgroups I try very hard to keep my responses to facts, preferably by an outside unbiased authority. However, I read the newsgroups consistantly. The newsgroup people tell me what I need to know about how to improve the product, what I am doing right, and what needs to change. Almost all of our products have been improved by comments from the newsgroups and/or our customers.
Thank you for your continued support on the Solaris LED light fixture.
Patrick Ormiston
PFO Lighting Inc.
sales@pfolighting.com
Pat - I'm one of your customers having bought the H4 and just having received it (like it very much, BTW). I would agree that the packaging could have been improved. I don't think that anybody here is requesting a full color box - but a thicker sturdier grade of cardboard would have been nice. I would disagree that boxing the fixture in an interior box, padding the outside of this and then placing within a shipping box would be cost prohibitive. Most people that are purchasing this fixture would probably prefer to get their fixture in a sturdy container that is better able to handle the rigors of shipment and wouldn't mind paying extra to ensure this (I was shocked as to how cheap the shipping estimate was when I ordered it - I would have paid double for the S&H if it meant that it was packed more securely).
Again, this is meant to be constructive criticism and be assured that I do like my fixture a lot! Best wishes in continued efforts to improve the product.
Spleen
Again, this is meant to be constructive criticism and be assured that I do like my fixture a lot! Best wishes in continued efforts to improve the product.
Spleen
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