hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Wow, Bean and I actually agree on something, and on almost every point...lol!
Solaris Led lighting systems
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I just get tired of the really bad information...
It appears that anything that even sounds "green" is fluffed up and propogated by the media and mis-informed.
Heck, even if the current production technology produced LEDs that were more efficient than standard lighting technologies... we still have a major problem, they are point sources and do not spread light very well without a lossy lens and reflector. That means that to be used for ambient light, they are pretty much USELESS. You need a LOT of LEDs to create ambient light, and BLAM there goes the savings in efficiency.
I can light an entire room with a 60W lightbulb... I can do so with a suitable CRI that is easy on the eyes. You CANT do that with 60W worth of LEDS yet.
You want a "conspiracy" then look at the moronic tree huggers that are advocating a ban on incandescent lighting in favor of CFL. They are the mindless pawns of the CFL manufacturers and the global lobbies. All in the name of "energy savings" and a reduction in "carbon emission" what a crock. It is nothing more than a good way to sell a few billion $7 lightbulbs. The reality is that they use far more resources than an incandescent and their byproducts are far worse for the globe and it's "fever". Mercury with your cheerios anybody? A single broken CFL will subject you to several time the "safe" lower exposure limit. Nothing like calling HAZMAT to clean up a lightbulb.
It appears that anything that even sounds "green" is fluffed up and propogated by the media and mis-informed.
Heck, even if the current production technology produced LEDs that were more efficient than standard lighting technologies... we still have a major problem, they are point sources and do not spread light very well without a lossy lens and reflector. That means that to be used for ambient light, they are pretty much USELESS. You need a LOT of LEDs to create ambient light, and BLAM there goes the savings in efficiency.
I can light an entire room with a 60W lightbulb... I can do so with a suitable CRI that is easy on the eyes. You CANT do that with 60W worth of LEDS yet.
You want a "conspiracy" then look at the moronic tree huggers that are advocating a ban on incandescent lighting in favor of CFL. They are the mindless pawns of the CFL manufacturers and the global lobbies. All in the name of "energy savings" and a reduction in "carbon emission" what a crock. It is nothing more than a good way to sell a few billion $7 lightbulbs. The reality is that they use far more resources than an incandescent and their byproducts are far worse for the globe and it's "fever". Mercury with your cheerios anybody? A single broken CFL will subject you to several time the "safe" lower exposure limit. Nothing like calling HAZMAT to clean up a lightbulb.
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hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Nope... the Solaris uses luxeons... they get about 20 lumens per 3 watts at best. Their only advantage is being able to focus that light into such a narrow beam... but that has its own limitations (like over a frag tank for example). The new Rebel's show some hipe... 60 lumens per watt. At least in the range of PC bulbs, and even with lenses to spread out the light to a good angle... they could rival some current tech. And considering the blue LEDs seem to rival the white ones in output... so its close. But considering the cost, and how long they will last... ouch! And Cree recently declared that they will break the 160 lumen/watt barrier in the next few years... so current LED tech seems a bit too early to buy.
LarryW
Premium Member
I look at it this way.... 400w of LED's or 500W of MH? Plus a 1/5hp chiller that draws 5amps.
TCO
JBJ 1/5hp chiller $700
Coralife Aqualight Pro (2) 250w HQI $1100
replacement HQI bulbs since the coralife ones aren't great $150 for 2 20k XM's
So that's almost 2 grand, with no supplemental lighting.
400w Solaris $2500
so 2 additional bulb replacements, and we are pretty much a wash. let's not even factor in the little bit of energy saved by not running that chiller. I don't really care about my electric bill, I just don't want to run a chiller unless it's absolutely necessary. If you look through both threads on these units, you will see that 98% of the actually end users who have this product LIKE it, and the results they get. Isn't that really what this hobby is about? I personally think my 400w solaris is brighter then the dual 250w mogal's I used to have over a 72g bowfront.
TCO
JBJ 1/5hp chiller $700
Coralife Aqualight Pro (2) 250w HQI $1100
replacement HQI bulbs since the coralife ones aren't great $150 for 2 20k XM's
So that's almost 2 grand, with no supplemental lighting.
400w Solaris $2500
so 2 additional bulb replacements, and we are pretty much a wash. let's not even factor in the little bit of energy saved by not running that chiller. I don't really care about my electric bill, I just don't want to run a chiller unless it's absolutely necessary. If you look through both threads on these units, you will see that 98% of the actually end users who have this product LIKE it, and the results they get. Isn't that really what this hobby is about? I personally think my 400w solaris is brighter then the dual 250w mogal's I used to have over a 72g bowfront.
SWSaltwater
New member
I have my 400W solaris on my 240 show next to a 2x 400W MH tank with 2 72" VHO act on a 180, the solaris is brighter. MH are 14k and the solaris is 20k. And I turned of the second solaris to compare. Bottom line is corals do well under the solaris and thats all that counts. I have also been able to install solaris in tight fitting canopys that would never allow a MH or VHO system due to heat and proximity to water.
Folks,
I'm planning a 72L x 24W x 30H reef tank, and looking for the best (I know, loaded word) lighting solution. It's down to 3 x 400W 20,000K MH or the 72" Solaris H4. I'd like to sanity-check my reasoning with the community here.
First, I'm not *that* concerned with cost -- reefing is an expensive habit in any event, and it's not like we're talking orders of magnitude in cost difference.
I'd like to avoid a chiller (one more thing to break), but since our house has A/C and we like it cool, I don't think I'll need one either way.
I really like the Solaris design, but I've never seen one in person. When I called PFO, they couldn't identify any dealers in the San Francisco Bay Area. That's a deal-breaker for me at the moment. I just can't bring myself to buy a *light* I can't *see*.
So I'm leaning toward MH, more or less by default.
Any suggestions on where to see a Solaris H4 in action, in a comparable-size tank?
Much thanks,
Jeff
I'm planning a 72L x 24W x 30H reef tank, and looking for the best (I know, loaded word) lighting solution. It's down to 3 x 400W 20,000K MH or the 72" Solaris H4. I'd like to sanity-check my reasoning with the community here.
First, I'm not *that* concerned with cost -- reefing is an expensive habit in any event, and it's not like we're talking orders of magnitude in cost difference.
I'd like to avoid a chiller (one more thing to break), but since our house has A/C and we like it cool, I don't think I'll need one either way.
I really like the Solaris design, but I've never seen one in person. When I called PFO, they couldn't identify any dealers in the San Francisco Bay Area. That's a deal-breaker for me at the moment. I just can't bring myself to buy a *light* I can't *see*.
So I'm leaning toward MH, more or less by default.
Any suggestions on where to see a Solaris H4 in action, in a comparable-size tank?
Much thanks,
Jeff
Jeff,
I have the same tank as you are looking at. We keep our A/C on 70 in the room with the tank. It's currently lit with 3x400w Hamilton 14K DE and 2x72" Actinic. The ballasts are NOT in the same room. Even with fans and 10,000gph of flow, I have a hard time keeping my temp below 83. I need either a chiller, or an LED lighting system!
I have the same tank as you are looking at. We keep our A/C on 70 in the room with the tank. It's currently lit with 3x400w Hamilton 14K DE and 2x72" Actinic. The ballasts are NOT in the same room. Even with fans and 10,000gph of flow, I have a hard time keeping my temp below 83. I need either a chiller, or an LED lighting system!
Thanks Bill -- that's helpful data.
You know, it just occurred to me -- the tank is going to be about a foot from an exterior wall. I wonder if I could vent it to the outside? That way I don't have to pay the power company twice. Plus, I could probably go with a much larger exhaust fan, yet generate less room noise, because it could be mounted in the laundry room on the other side of the wall.
Any caveats about such a ventilation scheme?
Jeff
You know, it just occurred to me -- the tank is going to be about a foot from an exterior wall. I wonder if I could vent it to the outside? That way I don't have to pay the power company twice. Plus, I could probably go with a much larger exhaust fan, yet generate less room noise, because it could be mounted in the laundry room on the other side of the wall.
Any caveats about such a ventilation scheme?
Jeff
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
FWIW, LEDs make just as much heat, if not more, than any other source. They are just better designed to wick that heat away from the bulb because sinks can be placed right on the back-side of the actual 'bulb'. But all that heat gets transferred to the top sinks, and out with the fans.
Another comparison, if you really want to... a single 250wattDE halide 10,000K makes more light than the 400watt solaris unit at IMAC. Add a couple T5s for blue, and you are still under 400watts with about 2x the output. Wanna get more creative? Add in a light mover, and for every two halides, you will only need one. So there, now you are down to 250 watts with twice the output of a solaris 400 equivalent unit, and twice the spread. Just saying... the LEDs arent the only, nor the best way to cut down on electrical use... nor heat output. There are other, more suitable methods for much less $$$. Using crappy halides that have 1/2 the output of a 10,000K is one thing that doesnt help.
Look at a recent buddy's tank composite I just did...
Those are PAR readings at various points on a 7'x3'x25" tall 320g with 3x250wattDE halides (10,000K ushios, which are the worst 10,000Ks out there output wise!), and 6x54wattT5s... just a tad over 1000watts for a 320g! And those lights are 12" above the water still! Just imagine when he lowers them another 6"!
Now, he gets 150-200 at the sand across most of the bottom... 80-120 at the corners/sides... and thats on a 21 square foot tank! A Solaris could never come close to this. It would spotlight the central 6' x 18" area with PAR levels lower than 150, and leave the rest of the tank in the dark because the LED's light output is so tightly cropped. The PFO at IMAC was about 1 foot above the water, and the water was 1' deep, and it barely pulled 150?!?!? Sure, that looks good when there is the crappiest 400watt 20,000K bulb right next to it... but since Ive been doing these 'composites' for people, they know what the numbers should be.
The coral growth and coloration under the above mentioned combo is better than anything I have ever seen. Lights that are too blue, with little else to pigment up corals means they might grow well, but end up faded in the end because there is no red, yellow, etc... which corals do respond to. Look at tanks that run 20,000Ks, or 14,000K pheonix bulbs. Sure, the tank looks good, but most acros are faded compared to what they would look like under a 10,000K. The full spectrum of the above unit just makes corals grow and look better... they have loads of blue from the actinic and blue T5s, and the full range from the halides... for a sun-blue look. Seriously, I have never seen corals ever color up as well as under this lighting (okay, except for skylight lit tanks).
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LarryW
Premium Member
FWIW my 14" 32w PC unit gives off more heat on my 7g, then my 400w solaris, when placing my hand below the units. I am all for MH, I had them before, and I was going to have them again. I don't care about my electric bill, trust me my water bill is far more then electricity. I like the look of both, and I am all about new technology. I am pretty please with PFO and this product, and I have seen the results you can get using these products. Really this debate is no different then "What is the best salt?"
I like Seachem Reef, you Like Red Sea Pro, .... Likes TM, .... gets great results from IO... Some of the largest aquariums in the US use IO as a base and add stuff to it. does that mean it's the greatest? No, it's all personal preference. Same goes with Protein Skimmers, DSB or no DSB, and all the other things in this hobby. I like the look of the solaris, I wanted a fixture over my tank no canopy, and I like new technology. The temp thing is true, and from what I read from actually H2 users in AZ, I decided to go that route. I almost need a chiller on my 7g with that 32w PC fixture. the temp hoover's around 81. I would and will soon(once its done) like to see actual time laps images of coral growth taken from the same location with the same camera settings, over 6 or 8 months. remember light is not the only thing that corals need to grow..... you still need your trace elements and supplements... also unless its certain acro that are out on the tidal breaks where they get direct sunlight with the tide is out, I think this unit will be fine for almost anything.
I like Seachem Reef, you Like Red Sea Pro, .... Likes TM, .... gets great results from IO... Some of the largest aquariums in the US use IO as a base and add stuff to it. does that mean it's the greatest? No, it's all personal preference. Same goes with Protein Skimmers, DSB or no DSB, and all the other things in this hobby. I like the look of the solaris, I wanted a fixture over my tank no canopy, and I like new technology. The temp thing is true, and from what I read from actually H2 users in AZ, I decided to go that route. I almost need a chiller on my 7g with that 32w PC fixture. the temp hoover's around 81. I would and will soon(once its done) like to see actual time laps images of coral growth taken from the same location with the same camera settings, over 6 or 8 months. remember light is not the only thing that corals need to grow..... you still need your trace elements and supplements... also unless its certain acro that are out on the tidal breaks where they get direct sunlight with the tide is out, I think this unit will be fine for almost anything.
RichConley
New member
I keep telling people this, and people keep saying "equal output to a halide".
Cognitive dissonance at its ugliest.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Oh, but Rich, you know... according to independent comparisons, even thought the PAR may be less, the PUR is more because corals really only need blue light more than other spectrums...
lol.
lol.
RichConley
New member
You wont find any. PFO wont let anyone put a respectable MH pendant next to the solaris.
Since they are calling it a "400", I'd love to see one right next to my 3x400 Hamilton DE 14Ks. Seriously, I was going to buy one of these 72" ones, but I want to see results from the original Solaris'. Who is REALLY growing SPS with these? I mean, frags doubleing every month or 2, like you get with MHs. Can't SOMEONE put one of these on a frag tank? I've offered to take a 24" unit from PFO and a 24" unit from Aquaillumination and put it on my 215g brick sps tank, next to one of my 400w, but no takers so far.
So, here's my proposal: I'll BUY a 24" from each of them. At the end of the test, I'll then buy a brand new 72" from the one that wins - IF one of them wins over the MH. BUT, the loser or losers have to give me my money back, and I'd need to trade in the 24" one that was the winner.
Takers?
So, here's my proposal: I'll BUY a 24" from each of them. At the end of the test, I'll then buy a brand new 72" from the one that wins - IF one of them wins over the MH. BUT, the loser or losers have to give me my money back, and I'd need to trade in the 24" one that was the winner.
Takers?
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