SWSaltwater
New member
Ok then why has everyone that upgraded to solaris reported lower electric bills?????? BTW, all SPS all on the back foam............Rainbow montis, acros, superman danaes, etc.
Solaris Led lighting systems
- Thread starter JohnL
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RichConley
New member
Because theyre lower wattage.
A 75w solaris draws 75w. A 250w MH draws 250w...of course the electric bill is lower...but the solaris has lower efficiency.
The 250w MH draws a little over 3 times the electricity, but puts off well more than 3 times the light.
Comparing a solaris to a MH light is like comparing a boxfan to an air conditioner. Of course your electricity will go down... but theres also a huge drop in performance.
SWSaltwater
New member
Misinformation seems to be what you are pedaling and you backtalked your previous statement so lets clarify this MH is more energy efficient but cost more on the energy bill?????
I saw no drop in performance to MH, my tank is doing great and SPS all are growing. Energy efficiency is all about the bill. The energy company charges by the watts and when someone says more efficient they mean in pocketbook 99% of the time. I am sure you understood this but wanted to pull out another way to discredit the solaris.
Using your logic I guess my Hemi ram is more efficient then a hybrid cause I get 3x the gas and 5x the power. Even though that extra power is useless with a speed limit of only 75. MH produces a lot of un-utilized light in the same way my truck has un-utilized power.
I think the problem you have with solaris is you can not understand the "focus" of it. You can not think in traditional ways with new technology. There is no wasted light, it is focused where it needs to be, directly at the corals, so even with less total output, it is still equal............
This creates my only complaint with LED technology, and that is light spread, you need to use 2 lights on tank with a width of 30 inch or more. But on the plus side the vast majority of tank owners do not go that deep. I personally love deep tanks for the 3d apperance, but will glady buy 2 solaris to cover it. Maybe Pat can work out a discount for people that buy 2 or more lights for their tank.....
I support Solaris and LED tech cause I see the results, I spent a lot on these fixtures and would not have bought the H4 when it was released if I did not know it worked based on use of the 250W. Not dropping thousands for my health, its cause they work.
I saw no drop in performance to MH, my tank is doing great and SPS all are growing. Energy efficiency is all about the bill. The energy company charges by the watts and when someone says more efficient they mean in pocketbook 99% of the time. I am sure you understood this but wanted to pull out another way to discredit the solaris.
Using your logic I guess my Hemi ram is more efficient then a hybrid cause I get 3x the gas and 5x the power. Even though that extra power is useless with a speed limit of only 75. MH produces a lot of un-utilized light in the same way my truck has un-utilized power.
I think the problem you have with solaris is you can not understand the "focus" of it. You can not think in traditional ways with new technology. There is no wasted light, it is focused where it needs to be, directly at the corals, so even with less total output, it is still equal............
This creates my only complaint with LED technology, and that is light spread, you need to use 2 lights on tank with a width of 30 inch or more. But on the plus side the vast majority of tank owners do not go that deep. I personally love deep tanks for the 3d apperance, but will glady buy 2 solaris to cover it. Maybe Pat can work out a discount for people that buy 2 or more lights for their tank.....
I support Solaris and LED tech cause I see the results, I spent a lot on these fixtures and would not have bought the H4 when it was released if I did not know it worked based on use of the 250W. Not dropping thousands for my health, its cause they work.
RichConley
New member
Yes, efficiency and power are two different things.
The solaris uses 75w, at 35 lumens per watt, for 2600 lumens.
A 10K 250w MH uses 250w, at 80 lumens per watt, for 20000 lumens.
And for comparison, a 70w MH uses 70w, at 45 lumens per watt, for 3150 lumens (yes, 250s are almost twice as efficient as 70w'ers)
Hey Rich and Hahn check my numbers here.
Been looking at the Aquaillumination unit. They use the Seoul Semi LED rated at 100 lumens/W. Here's the link link to Seoul Semi LED
and company site
Seoul Semi
Now compared to the XM10K numbers Rich posted this LED is 25% more efficient. It's tested at 1A which translates to 2.4W and 240 lumens.
Each bank has 24 LEDs and pulls 90W. If we assume they are all white LEDs and next to no power goes to the controller we can get an upper bound to the lumens emitted.
So with 90W max power per bank and 24 LEDs that = 3.75W/LED.
At 100 lumens/w that = 375 lumens/LED or 9000 for the bank.
Two banks to equal 1 MH coverage = 18000 lumens; or 10% lower than the XM10K. So even a 100 lm/W LED can't match the 10K. Still I would say this performance is pretty impressive. And might be pretty close after reflector losses.
Looking at the spectrum there is a fair amount of red; certainly more than the XM20K.
I'm guessing the reason the LEDs can't match the MH here is current drain limitations in the LED to prevent junction overheating. So while it is more efficient it can't use as much power thus generates fewer lumens. And less heat.
One interesting note from the Seoul releases you may notice is they are planning on a 135lm/W LED release this year and 145lm/W next year. With the upgrade option on the Aquaillumination now this gets interesting. As they have a product roughly 9 months after the last announcement this time next year could see LEDs 35% better than today's in a product. Now that would truly be a 400W comparison.
So this sounds promising. Still $$ though. Have I missed anything?
Been looking at the Aquaillumination unit. They use the Seoul Semi LED rated at 100 lumens/W. Here's the link link to Seoul Semi LED
and company site
Seoul Semi
Now compared to the XM10K numbers Rich posted this LED is 25% more efficient. It's tested at 1A which translates to 2.4W and 240 lumens.
Each bank has 24 LEDs and pulls 90W. If we assume they are all white LEDs and next to no power goes to the controller we can get an upper bound to the lumens emitted.
So with 90W max power per bank and 24 LEDs that = 3.75W/LED.
At 100 lumens/w that = 375 lumens/LED or 9000 for the bank.
Two banks to equal 1 MH coverage = 18000 lumens; or 10% lower than the XM10K. So even a 100 lm/W LED can't match the 10K. Still I would say this performance is pretty impressive. And might be pretty close after reflector losses.
Looking at the spectrum there is a fair amount of red; certainly more than the XM20K.
I'm guessing the reason the LEDs can't match the MH here is current drain limitations in the LED to prevent junction overheating. So while it is more efficient it can't use as much power thus generates fewer lumens. And less heat.
One interesting note from the Seoul releases you may notice is they are planning on a 135lm/W LED release this year and 145lm/W next year. With the upgrade option on the Aquaillumination now this gets interesting. As they have a product roughly 9 months after the last announcement this time next year could see LEDs 35% better than today's in a product. Now that would truly be a 400W comparison.
So this sounds promising. Still $$ though. Have I missed anything?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Am I to understand from that comment that "coal miners" are not as smart? Or maybe that because I have worked in a coal mine I am biased towards the product? Good grief.
When somebody shows me REAL science that points to man made global warming, I will certainly be interested in it. If you are just going to regurgitate the Al Gore and UN montra, then please do save it
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
You mean like the guy who saved $100 a month by moving from a 300W MH setup to a 250W LED setup... 50W different in net consumption but somehow a few hundred kWh in savings. Must be some kind of new physics. Just like the magic Peltier devices that somehow defy physics and are more efficient than phase change chillers even though science says they can't be.
If you are HONESTLY interested in the math, then I (or others) can show you. Electricity consumption is a VERY SIMPLE matter. Some would have you believe that it is complicated and only an elite few could understand it.
glassbox-design
New member
70 watt par38 MH halides on electronic ballast. focused light, less energy usage...
ushio will be coming out with 10k and 14k g12 bulbs very soon. i plan on trying them out in some tracked stage fixtures. focused light and an attractive fixture....
ushio will be coming out with 10k and 14k g12 bulbs very soon. i plan on trying them out in some tracked stage fixtures. focused light and an attractive fixture....
Drewcipher
Premium Member
Bean, calculation of electricity is simple, but everyone's situation is different. Climate, size of room, central air, chillers. It can all cause vastly different changes in the use of electricity. I am not disagreeing with you per se, but if I give you and 4 other people all the exact same equipement and livestock and care instructions, in a short time we would have 5 very different looking tanks. I think it is unfair of you to dismiss a claim without concrete evidence to disprove it. Now, in your defense, I would like to see a year's worth of electric bills from someone who did nothing different but change from MH to LED. I would also like the winning numbers to Powerball, but some things aren't meant to be.
Lastly, there have been many trends in this hobby, things are good until they aren't. Things are bad, until they aren't. Remember, MH is a mature technology, LED is a developing one. The fact there is even a discussion like this is evidence that LED has a potential to meet or surpass the performance of MH...then again, maybe it will fade away to nothing in a couple years.
Lastly, there have been many trends in this hobby, things are good until they aren't. Things are bad, until they aren't. Remember, MH is a mature technology, LED is a developing one. The fact there is even a discussion like this is evidence that LED has a potential to meet or surpass the performance of MH...then again, maybe it will fade away to nothing in a couple years.
Drewcipher
Premium Member
I just reread my post and if Charlie Brown had children with John Kerry, I couldn't be anymore wishy washy. Oh well. I still believe what I said.
RichConley
New member
Not really, the fact that there is discussion like this just proves how good of a job PFO's marketing department is doing. Yes, LEDs have the potential to replace everything, but the solaris isnt even close.
Philwd, I really dont know anything about that fixture, but if theyre using 100lumen/watt LEDs, it may actually be an improvement.
PSam
Active member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10106936#post10106936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
When somebody shows me REAL science that points to man made global warming, I will certainly be interested in it. If you are just going to regurgitate the Al Gore and UN montra, then please do save it
LOL. Poster child for diarrhea of the mouth. The guy has done nothing more than politicize a topic which should stay out of politics. I have only a minor degree in the studies of climate change, yet could destroy this guys skewed 'facts' / scare tactics in a debate (please mind you - my side is not for the green camp, nor is it for the oil camp. I stand in tghe middle due to lack of true data that cannot be contested... much like the solaris!)
Seriously, show me real data. Gore pointed out an article re: melting ice shelf on western side of Antarctica. I took a moment to find his source. The abstract did indeed mention the melting of the western shelf. Too bad Gore didn't read the next paragraph, where the Eastern shelf was growing...
Skewed, inaccurate. Vomit.Sorry, back to topic... just can't keep my mouth shut (unlike Al) when it comes to that.
Will some real scientists please stand up? For global warming? For the Solaris? Let's see some data. All I ask.
RichConley
New member
http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1760&link_str=196::197&partno=LXHL-DW09
3.9w 70 lumens, for a wonderful efficiency of 17 lumens per watt.
The solaris uses 25 of them, slightly underdriven, to 3w. Lets assume that underdriving them increases them to 20lumens per watt....just for the sake of argument.
So 75w * 20 lumens per watt = 1500 lumens. Lets assume, again, 100% reflector efficiency.
http://www.venturelighting.com/TechCenter/Metal-Halide-TechIntro.html
has lumens/watt for halides 65-115. Lets assume 75.
250w * 75 lumens /watt =18750 lumens.
So, in order for the 250w MH to have the same efficiency as the LED, its reflector needs to be less than 22% efficiency. In order for the LED to have "similar output", the MH reflector needs to waste 92% of its output( be 8% efficient)
seriously...this whole thing is a joke.
RichConley
New member
Just realized I made a mistake.
I think this is the LED the solaris is using
http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1810&link_str=330&partno=LXK2-PW12-R00
That increases the efficiency to 25 lumens/watt.... which doesnt really change the comparison any.
I think this is the LED the solaris is using
http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1810&link_str=330&partno=LXK2-PW12-R00
That increases the efficiency to 25 lumens/watt.... which doesnt really change the comparison any.
stimpy4242
New member
I think it is great that you all are doing all of these readings, but you know...they are all in controlled environments and i can only imagine that there are hundreds of variables that affect all these things...I have been using my solaris now for 3 months with excellent results. When I say excellent I mean that the corals and photo sensitive items are all blooming just as they were before without any decline. I am saving money on electricity and I enjoy the 28 day lunar cycle which mimics the world...i feel that with more time the corals may do even better because of this automation...i get random cloud cover through the day just like in the real world and some night there is no moonlight just like in the real world and the days get longer and shorter just like in the real world...bottom line is: IT WORKS!!! I don't give a crap what your numbers say, it is working...did anyone ever stop to wonder if MH were too much in themselves? Just curious...i know they are better than pcs, but are they so much better that really a unit that is less, IF THE SOLARIS IS, is just fine? The most light possible is also NOT GOOD!
No one will ever know unless we do an interview with a coral:
Stimpy4242: So you're a brain coral right?
Brain Coral: That's correct.
S: I came to you because you must be the smartest of all corals.
BC: That is true, I do have a brain.
S: So tell me, how did you like the lighting situation before?
BC: It was just fine, no major concerns except for that blackout one day. (chuckles)
S: Yes I do apologize, I can not control everything. How do you enjoy the new lighting situation?
BC: I have to be frank with you, I have not noticed any difference. I am still growing just fine. Thank you for asking.
S: Thank you brain coral.
No one will ever know unless we do an interview with a coral:
Stimpy4242: So you're a brain coral right?
Brain Coral: That's correct.
S: I came to you because you must be the smartest of all corals.
BC: That is true, I do have a brain.
S: So tell me, how did you like the lighting situation before?
BC: It was just fine, no major concerns except for that blackout one day. (chuckles)
S: Yes I do apologize, I can not control everything. How do you enjoy the new lighting situation?
BC: I have to be frank with you, I have not noticed any difference. I am still growing just fine. Thank you for asking.
S: Thank you brain coral.
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