Sometimes we do really stupid things....

[psimitry]

...and if we don't learn from those stupid things, we're doomed to repeat them.

In my case, it comes in the form of dropping small metal objects into my tank.

A couple of months ago, when I was setting up my Wave2k, I stupidly (accidentally) dropped in the small allen wrench that comes with the device for installation. Fortunately, it got sucked into the Wave2k itself and upon removing it, the wrench fell out.

Small crisis averted.

NOW, I've managed to do something almost as dumb. I was noticing the other night that my power cords were working themselves free of the balast on my T5 Retro system. Whenever I open the canopy, the point where the sheath was stripped back was catching on the edge of the canopy for a second and causing the wires to work loose a little bit every time I opened the canopy.

So I got the staple gun out and thought that I would staple a little slack into the wires so that they wouldn't catch on the edge.

Upon opening it the first time, PING PING PING!! All three staples I just put in popped out of the canopy and into the tank. I managed to recover one of them, but the other two are missing.

I broke one apart to see if there was some sort of copper core or something critical, I didn't see anything. These appear to be made out of something like either zinc or aluminum.

At this point, there's not much I can really do about them short of tearing apart my rock structure and straining my sand bed... I'd really prefer not to do that.

Advice?

 

[palmerc]

If they are not copper I would not worry too much.

I had a similar experience. I kept soem loose change on top of my canopy and when I opened it to feed the fish a coin slid down (bronze) and landed on a leather. I only noticed it about a half an hour later and removed it. However it had already created a round patch the size of the coin on the leather. Now almost 4 months later the mark is only starting to disappear. Luckily the leather suffered no ill effects at all.

 

[OldmillXxX]

I always wondered about this and have wanted to ask the question without sounding like a total a$$.

Has anyone ever dosed iron by way of a nail or other metal object?

I ask this because if you ever watch the discovery channel or history channel they show an old, old wreck (made of metal) that is always encrusted with all types of inverts and schools of fish both large and small.

Could it work?

Maybe I'll post this in a new thread and get some talk going.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I stupidly (accidentally) dropped in the small allen wrench that comes with the device for installation.

I remember. :lol:

In this case, I'd leave them. That doesn't mean there is no risk, but it is not nearly so bad is if they were copper or brass.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Has anyone ever dosed iron by way of a nail or other metal object?

I dose soluble iron once a week to drive macroalgae growth.

FWIW, in the case of a wreck, I think the metal is just a good support for marine growth, not because it has special nutrient properties.

 

[psimitry]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7354706#post7354706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
I stupidly (accidentally) dropped in the small allen wrench that comes with the device for installation.

I remember. :lol:

In this case, I'd leave them. That doesn't mean there is no risk, but it is not nearly so bad is if they were copper or brass.

Hmm... they don't APPEAR to be brass, but I don't know if there's some kind of "silverized brass" or anything (though I'd doubt it).

But thanks for the reassurance.

I swear, sometimes I just want to put a piece of screen material on there and leave it, lost light be darned.

 

[psimitry]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7354721#post7354721 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Has anyone ever dosed iron by way of a nail or other metal object?

I dose soluble iron once a week to drive macroalgae growth.

FWIW, in the case of a wreck, I think the metal is just a good support for marine growth, not because it has special nutrient properties.

How do you test for Iron? I don't think I've seen an Iron test kit anywhere online...

Maybe run a magnet through the tank and see how much you pick up?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There is not a suitable way to test for the low levels of iron added to a reef aquarium. You just dose a bit and be happy.

 

[psimitry]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7354758#post7354758 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
There is not a suitable way to test for the low levels of iron added to a reef aquarium. You just dose a bit and be happy.

But that violates the "if you're not testing, don't dose" rule!!!

It sounds like it might be a good idea, but I'd be really afraid of doing something like that. For fear that I wouldn't be able to spot the symptom of when I'm dosing too much.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Jsut because you cannot measure it doesn't mean it must be OK. :lol:

here's the dosing section from my iron article:

First Iron Article: Macroalgae and Dosing Recommendations
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/chem.htm

Second Iron Article: Iron: A Look at Organisms Other than Macroalgae
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2002/chem.htm

Iron in Reef Tanks: How Much and What Form?

Deciding how much iron to add is fairly easy because, in my experience, it doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t seem to matter too much. Presumably, once you add enough to eliminate iron as a limiting nutrient, extra iron does not apparently cause harm (at least that Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve detected in my tanks or heard of from others). I selected a dose of about 0.1 to 0.3 mL of a solution containing 5 g of iron (as 25 g of ferrous sulfate heptahydrate) in 250 mL of water containing 50.7 g of sodium citrate dihydrate. This liquid is dosed 2-3 times per week to my system with a total water volume of about 250 gallons. This iron(II) citrate has turned brown and cloudy since I first made up the bottle years ago, suggesting that it is oxidizing to iron(III) and some is precipitating from solution, but I still use it. Over the past 4 years, Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve dosed nearly all of the 5 grams of actual iron to my tank.

Now that may sound like a huge amount, and it is. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s enough to bring 800 million gallons of completely depleted seawater up to the 0.000006 ppm level that I mentioned earlier for natural sea surface water. Still, Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve not noticed any problem, do not know the steady state concentration, do not know how high of a solution concentration is actually optimal for my tank, do not know how much is biologically available by the mechanisms mentioned below, do not know how fast it is removed by skimming and other mechanisms, and do not know what would happen if I cut it back by a factor of 1,000.

All that I know is that microalgae has never been a problem since starting the iron, and Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve not noticed anything negative that I could attribute to the iron (nor have I heard of any from others doing similar dosing). Still, I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t keep all organisms available to the hobby, and if you do seem to get a negative reaction from something, Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢d advise backing off on the dose or stopping completely.

Since many hobbyists do not have access to the chemicals required to make iron(II) citrate, Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢d advise buying a commercial iron supplement. There are a number available that seem appropriate and are not very expensive. Some commercial supplements combine manganese with iron (such as Kentââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s product), presumably because the scientific literature has demonstrated that phytoplankton also scavenge manganese from the water column. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve not experimented with manganese, but it is probably fine to use if you cannot find a pure iron supplement.

Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢d also advise using only iron supplements that have the iron chelated to an organic molecule. The iron sold for freshwater applications is sometimes not chelated because free iron is more soluble in the lower pH of freshwater tanks. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢d avoid those products for marine applications. It will likely still work (as many of the studies in the scientific literature use free iron in seawater), but probably not as well because it may precipitate before it has fully fortified the system with iron.

In many cases of iron intended for the marine hobby, the product may not tell you what the iron is chelated with, in order to protect proprietary formulations. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t actually know if it matters too much. Very strong chelation by certain molecules will actually inhibit bioavailability by not permitting release of the iron without completely taking apart the chelating molecule, but I expect that manufacturers have avoided those molecules. EDTA and citrate, and some others, actually degrade photochemically, releasing small amounts of free iron continually. It is believed to be the free iron that is actually taken up by many organisms, and likely iron(II), though some organisms may be able to convert iron(III) to iron(II) before uptake (the detailed absorption mechanisms are generally not known). There is a more detailed discussion of this degradation and uptake in ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œCaptive Seawater Fishesââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ by Stephen Spotte (1992).

 

[PatMayo]

Wow!

Thanks Randy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

Happy Reefing.