Spider Sponge (Trikentrion flabelliforme)/every advice counts

[OlgaF]

Hi everyone,
In December 2011 I purchased this astonishing sponge and settled it in my Elos 100 mixed tank. This is how it used to look like at the time of purchase

About 2-3 weeks ago I noticed that the parazoantus do not open up as well as they used to

I tried to change location of a sponge (sump, sps tank), fragged a small piece and placed it in the sps tank and another small frag is now in the same mixed tank but in totally shadede place, tried various food types for parazoas (cyclopeeze, rotifers, artemia,, etc) - earlier it gave me excellent reaction for cyclopeeze, yet they don't any more:sad2:
The sponge itself is getting Brightwell Aquatics PhytoGold-S, Brightwell Aquatics PhytoGold-M, New Life Spectrum Reef Micro Feeder Formula, Kent Marine ChromaMax, and daily KZ sponge power.
Though there is no signs of sponge deterioration, what worries me is - some areas look see-through and the parazoas don't open at all for a week already. Also after almost for months I would doubt to say there is any noticable growth in the sponge.
This is the status as of today

I searched allover internet for additional information on this sponge trying, but looks like whoever dealt with it, lost it within a 6-months period maximum.

I would be happy to find anybody who succeeded with spider sponge longer than this and who would be so generous to share his/her experience. Any ideas, advice, suggestions are appreciated

 

[username in use]

Well, you're not meeting its needs, whether it be dietary, flow, water parameters or any combination or all of the above.

What have you actually seen the polyps ingest? What kind of flow is it in?

 

[MarineSniper]

Need to check your water parameters immediately, if you haven't done so already. I can tell almost instantly that something is off by even subtle changes in my nps that most people would never notice; due to the amount of time I spend with them

I would check these, in this order; based on my personal experiences:
No3
Sg (mine are extremely sensitive to even slight changes if my ato is dry)
Kh (virtually all non photosynthetics are sensitive to alkalinity fluctuation)

If none of those are out of whack, you can check the rest but one of those 3 have always been the culprit whenever I notice some visual change in mine

Hope it's something easy and you can bring it back, it is absolutely gorgeous!

 

[OlgaF]

Well, you're not meeting its needs, whether it be dietary, flow, water parameters or any combination or all of the above.

What have you actually seen the polyps ingest? What kind of flow is it in?

Earlier the polyps ate cyclopeeze, rotifers, red plankton, even artemia. Prior to main feeding I used to put a portion of cycloppeze into the tank, so that polyps on the sponge, tubastrea, gorgonias would sense the food and open up. It never took more than a couple of minutes for the polyps to get ready. Now polyps simply dissappeared.
The sponge is located right under the return pump, from the back wall there blows Tunze 1255, it create circulatory movement in the middle water level. Plus Tunze nano wave box is working constantly. An hour after each feeding I additionally turn on Tunze 6055, to blow off food leftovers. This type of circulation I have had unchanged since the sponge was put in, it used to react ok.

 

[OlgaF]

Need to check your water parameters immediately, if you haven't done so already. I can tell almost instantly that something is off by even subtle changes in my nps that most people would never notice; due to the amount of time I spend with them

I would check these, in this order; based on my personal experiences:
No3
Sg (mine are extremely sensitive to even slight changes if my ato is dry)
Kh (virtually all non photosynthetics are sensitive to alkalinity fluctuation)

If none of those are out of whack, you can check the rest but one of those 3 have always been the culprit whenever I notice some visual change in mine

Hope it's something easy and you can bring it back, it is absolutely gorgeous!

Checking water parameters is the first thing I did. This is kind of habit already, since I keep a tank with non-photo and LPS for over a year.
NO3 is always below 20, normally between 5 and 15.
Salinity used to be 34-35 ppm, than about half a year ago I accidentaly dropped it to 33 ppm and I was surprised that most of my livestock positively reacted to such a drop. Since then I keep the salinity at 32-33 ppm.
kH is steady 8-9, the tank is on balling all the time
Phospate I drop down with lantane as soon as they reach 0.12 mg/l (approximately every two weeks), measure with Hanna, after the drop normally the amount of phospate keeps at 0.02-0.04 for quite a while.
I wonder if addition of silicate may be a solution, yet there are contradictory opinions on this. What also bewilders me is that the changes I see are not in the sponge itself, but in the parazoantus hosting it. Most of negative results that I found about this species state that it was the sponge that died first, not the polyps. A friend of mine also had this species in aquarium, purchased the same time as mine was, yet her sponge died a month ago and it was the sponge that deteriorated and the polyps are still alive.

 

[username in use]

How many times a day were you feeding it?

 

[OlgaF]

How many times a day were you feeding it?

The sponge gets KZ sponge power once a day, amino and phyto minimum 3 times a day.
Polyps were fed directly at least twice a day, apart from what the tank gets 4-6 times daily.
This is how it looks like during feeding times :spin2:

 

[username in use]

4-6 times a day may not be enough

 

[OlgaF]

4-6 times a day may not be enough

I would not doubt to feed them more often - the issue is the polyps won't open to catch up food? What is the reason for them to stop opening remains unclear.

 

[username in use]

They may have stopped opening because there wasn't enough food throughout the day. When I go 10-12 hours without feeding, some of my corals will close up and take a couple feedings to open back up.

They may need constant food in the water for a few weeks at this point to start opening again.

 

[MarineSniper]

I'm not very familiar with that particular species so the opinions on continual feeding may have merit. It certainly seems like you were feeding the right foods and often. Forgive my asking about the parameters, it wasn't meant as an insult, just a rule-out. I've been stunned more than once with people telling me they'd have to take a sample to their lfs for testing! They were definitely putting the cart before the horse, imo, especially in this segment of the hobby

Have you googled the problem, by chance? Long shot, I know, but may be worth a try

 

[OlgaF]

They may have stopped opening because there wasn't enough food throughout the day. When I go 10-12 hours without feeding, some of my corals will close up and take a couple feedings to open back up.

They may need constant food in the water for a few weeks at this point to start opening again.

Thanks for an idea, I will rewise my feeding scheme for the next couple of weeks, see if there be any changes for better. What I am going to do now is to start constant food for filter feeders and gorgonians, plus direct feeding for sponge and gorgonians more often. Earlier I did orient myself at gorgonians and their reaction, yet seems like the sponge is more picky. For now its being done manally, yet if things change for better, I will have to revise the automation options.:uhoh3:
Also would appreciate your opinion regarding silicate addition for sponges. Thank you again

 

[username in use]

Ive never added silica and my sponges seem to be doing well.

 

[OlgaF]

I'm not very familiar with that particular species so the opinions on continual feeding may have merit. It certainly seems like you were feeding the right foods and often. Forgive my asking about the parameters, it wasn't meant as an insult, just a rule-out. I've been stunned more than once with people telling me they'd have to take a sample to their lfs for testing! They were definitely putting the cart before the horse, imo, especially in this segment of the hobby

Have you googled the problem, by chance? Long shot, I know, but may be worth a try

MarineSniper, no insult of course, I should have mentioned the water parameters myself. Thanks for taking part in the thread, like I said in the title, every hint would count. I did google this for many days, there is plenty of contradictory sources and no happy ending. Threads in other forums just cut off after about half a year. There is no definite source like "I have been keeping these animals for a year (two, three....) and succeded in keeping them alive.
As for continous feeding, its been already started today, about 2 liter of mixed food (half a gallon) have been dosed in and I feel like the solid water change is waiting for me.

 

[OlgaF]

Ive never added silica and my sponges seem to be doing well.

Thank you, what a relief there is one bottle less to dose:bounce2:

 

[username in use]

My water might have sufficient silica in it, I just don't know. I collect water from the ocean, so who knows whats in it :lol:

 

[OlgaF]

My water might have sufficient silica in it, I just don't know. I collect water from the ocean, so who knows whats in it :lol:

I wonder if I need to launch some ocean water pipeline to Moscow to keep this sponge happy:mtool::lol:

 

[username in use]

Oh wow, I didn't realize you were in Moscow. That's pretty cool, the world gets smaller every day.

 

[Hermannsae]

OlgaF, any updates?
I have my spider sponge frag for one year now and it is growing.
Never had a problem with the polyps. However, I encountered some problems with algae nesting on the red sponge. Still wasn't able to get rid of it completely

 

[Calappidae]

OlgaF, any updates?
I have my spider sponge frag for one year now and it is growing.
Never had a problem with the polyps. However, I encountered some problems with algae nesting on the red sponge. Still wasn't able to get rid of it completely

As a result of feeding NPS specimens, nutrients are being built up in the water and algae is feeding off it. Blow it off, keep your phosphates, and nitrates really in check, and hope it doesn't grow back.