sponges

[pleasants9]

Even though they say sponges still need some light I assume they fall under this section on reef central. either way I was curious who else has some corals they are tending to in their tank and how they are doing/ what you feed them.

I just got a red ball sponge coral in my tank from the LFS, I made sure it never had contact with air both going into its bag and out. I have it in a spot with medium flow so it should be able to capture enough food to filter feed. Another coral I have been looking at is the australian white line/lightning sponge. Anyone have any experience with this sponge?

 

[SanJuan]

Even though they say sponges still need some light I assume they fall under this section on reef central.

Sponges fall under the "other inverts" section on RC.

 

[uhuru]

Sponges and corals are completely different. Sponges are one of the simplest animals in the world. Some are photosynthetic and some are not. The white lightning sponge in non-photosynthetic, and the non-photosynthetic corals living on it probably require regular feedings throughout the day.

 

[stunreefer]

Most things I see labeled "red ball sponge" in LFS are of the non-photosynthetic variety, and unfortunately very difficult to care for. Most fade away over time.

 

[rowjimmy]

Sponges and corals are completely different. Sponges are one of the simplest animals in the world. Some are photosynthetic and some are not. The white lightning sponge in non-photosynthetic, and the non-photosynthetic corals living on it probably require regular feedings throughout the day.

^^^+1

I got a frag of "white lightning sponge" a couple of months ago. The white symbiotic "zoos" living within the sponge need regular feedings several times a day IME. When they don't get those feedings they tend to stay closed up all the time.

I've seen some cases of people trying to keep these sponges/zoos, and the sponge eventually dies off leaving them with a pile/web of white interlocking zoos with no structual support.

 

[uhuru]

Are you feeding anything specifically for your sponge?

Here is mine:

 

[rowjimmy]

Beautiful pic uhuru!

Not so much the sponge, but I'm sure it benefits as well...but I spot feed the symbiotic white "zoos" several times a day using a syringe full of Oyster Feast, and Fauna Marin Ultra Min F. They really love the Oyster Feast IME. I also shoot any particulate food matter that I may be feeding at that time in their direction as well. The polyps don't seem that picky, and accept just about anything I throw at them.

As far as food specifically for sponges besides for the Ultra Min F I do also dose "Sponge Power" to my system at double the recommended dose.

 

[uhuru]

I make up a mix of cyclopleeze, Min F, and bbs which I manually feed the tank throughout the day, so looks like these polyps will be taken care of as well. I don't have any sponge power but we'll see if the continuous dosing is sufficient. I would hate to see it whither away while the polyps are still alive. I will say that the polyps on mine have yet to close since I put it in the tank.

 

[rowjimmy]

It's a good sign that your polyps are staying open all the time. The biggest challenge is unfortunately keeping the supporting sponge structure alive....the sponge usually wastes away in time leaving the living pile of white polyps behind. How is the sponge growth in your system in general?

I don't know how the living polyps fare once the sponge deteriorates. I got my frag to "test the water" before spending good money on a large specimen.

When/if the sponge dies off on my frag I've thought that I may try to cut/frag the living polyps and super glue them to a rock to keep them alive. Cause the polyps seem easy enough to feed/keep alive.

The thing is I don't know if the polyps rely on the sponge as a supporting structure to grow on exclusively, or if they derive some other?/nutritional? benefit from the symbiotic relationship with the sponge. If the latter is the case then the polyps will also die off eventually once the sponge is dead.

 

[uhuru]

I take it you are seeing polyp growth but no sponge growth, even with the sponge power?

I wonder if the polyps are actually parasitic and killing the sponge. Do you stir your sand bed regularly?

I only used dry rock in my system so I really don't have any sponge growth, aside from those pineapple sponges, which come and go. They pop up the most when I do heavy dosing of shellfish diet.

That would be cool if the polyps could survive off the sponge. Grow them on a rock and you have fraggable, azoox zoas! Could be worth a lot of $$ to all those zoa nuts!

 

[rowjimmy]

I've seen a few new polyps sprout out along the "white lines", but nothing major in new polyp growth. I have seen no new sponge growth at all with this frag with the exception of the base.

I used a plastic toothpick inserted at the bottom of the freshly cut frag, and pushed the other end into a small hole in some live rock. It was loose at first but the sponge eventually grew onto the rock to lock the frag into position. No other new growth has been noted even with the "Sponge Power" additions.

I have noticed fast growth in the many sponges that have come in on my live rock, and ones that are growing out of the rock that were never visable since adding "Sponge Power". But with this particular frag I have noticed no new growth.

I never even thought that the polyps could be parasitic, but that is an interesting thought. Not much is known about these "new" sponges, so anything is possible.

I stir my shallow sand bed up once a week, and I also blow off my live rock with a turkey baster 3 times a week.

It would be cool if the polyps could live if they were propagated to a rock after the sponge dies. At least it wouldn't be a total loss, and the pure white polyps would add a nice contrasting color to a reef tank.

 

[suta4242]

That would be cool if the polyps could survive off the sponge. Grow them on a rock and you have fraggable, azoox zoas! Could be worth a lot of $$ to all those zoa nuts!

If these are the Australian ones like in your photo, when the sponge dies the polyps eventually do too. No idea about the relationship between the two, but don't think its parasitic.

They are one of my favourite
sponges, but I haven't had any long term success with them. IME feeding the polyps isn't hard, but its the sponge that seems to be the problem.

You might have some luck uhuru, because at least you're not trying to keep them in a conventional reef tank.

 

[doorlady]

we were only able to keep ours about six months, the sponge just keep dying.

 

[stunreefer]

It's a Parazonthus living sybiotically with the sponge. I worked at an aquaculture facility and we tried to grow the "zoas" off of the sponge (once it withered away) to no avail.

One guy I know has kept a couple colonies about a year and a half now (even has them growing) and I asked him about his experience with them a while back, this was his resposne:

Well I wouldnt consider them long term yet but I have had my colonies for over a year now. One or two parts have lost their parazoanthids but probably b/c they were low down and out of the flow. I feed pretty heavily using a mix similar to Rod's Food but of my own design (we used something similar when I worked at a small public aquarium).

A couple things I have noticed:

-cant expose them to air, just like most sponges this causes tissue necrosis.
-they cant take full light b/c of potential Algae overgrowth issues. Cyano is a particular pest.
-The zoanthids open in reaction to my feeding the tank but I have never seen them feed directly. Dont know if they are purely welching from the sponge (mechanism?) or just feeding on small enough particulates that I dont see it a la SPS corals.
-They thrive in fairly high flow but indirect. For example, my healthiest colony seems to do really well behind a tunze. There is a lot of water moving past it but its getting pulled past, not pushed.
-you have to have some detritus and turkey baste your rock. I do on both accounts.
-growth is slower than slow. About 1.5-2" per year though its so slow its hard to quantify (I havent measured formally).
-success with other sponges (swifti, orange tree et al) seems to correlate with success with this one. I have at least 5 different types besides spider sponge that are cranking including a photosynthetic species.

I usually steer folks with SPS/aquatic desert type tanks away from trying it. I hope that helps, lmk if you'd like more info. I have been meaning to do a more concerted effort/write up on it but just havent had the time.

 

[rowjimmy]

Thanks for that info Austin. Just out of curiosity how did you guys try to grow the "zoas" out? What was the method used?

 

[stunreefer]

The sponge died and the "zoas" were just loose, but still alive, open and seemed to "eat" food. Although as with many NPS corals, they would reject (spit back out) some of the food after an hour or so. As with other true Zoanthid we propagated, we simply attached them to a frag disk, where they did indeed attach within about two weeks, but slowly faded away after a couple months. It was very unfortunate as it seemed promising initially. I had them located next to several morphs/species of very delicate colonial tunicates. It seemed that since the tunicates thrived there and grew rapidly, so would the Parazoanthus, but alas not the case. I tried several times after that as well (when the sponge would fade away) with the same results.

That's a gorgeous specimen there Mike and a great sign that it has remained open. Best of luck to you guys!

 

[suta4242]

Well I wouldnt consider them long term yet but I have had my colonies for over a year now. One or two parts have lost their parazoanthids but probably b/c they were low down and out of the flow...

I'm betting by this stage it didn't look fresh like in the photo. A local shop kept theirs 'alive' for well over a year using only moderate flow. But once the parazoanthids start to die, usually the sponge is already decaying. At least thats been my observation / experience.

A couple things I have noticed:

-cant expose them to air, just like most sponges this causes tissue necrosis.

If its the West Australian one he kept, you can briefly expose them to air, as many are exposed to air for a couple of hours during the huge daily tides.

Finally, a quick comment about their habitat. The surge in those intertidal bays is phenomenal - your vortech wouldn't come close to replicating it. And with the changing tides comes the plankton etc that probably feeds parazoanthids and the sponge.

Not trying to be negative though, as I realise a lot of inverts we keep adapt to tank conditions completely different to those in the wild. However, I still think the hardest part about keeping this combo is meeting the needs of the actual sponge, which may include flow as well as food.

HTH

 

[stunreefer]

I'm betting by this stage it didn't look fresh like in the photo.

Surprisingly not the case here... I contacted him about it because he was selling frags of it at a frag swap - I was astonished to find out that he was actually getting growth out of the sponge, and the only issue he had was some die off of the Parazoanthus as he mentioned in the quote above. Here's a picture he posted in the "frag swap thread":

This is one hobbyist I've traded many times with and he's been in the hobby quite a while - I trust that he didn't bring this thing in and just chop it up for the swap... he's an avid propagator at heart.

Finally, a quick comment about their habitat. The surge in those intertidal bays is phenomenal - your vortech wouldn't come close to replicating it. And with the changing tides comes the plankton etc that probably feeds parazoanthids and the sponge.

Great to know!

However, I still think the hardest part about keeping this combo is meeting the needs of the actual sponge, which may include flow as well as food.

Agreed :thumbsup:

 

[GreshamH]

I'm betting by this stage it didn't look fresh like in the photo. A local shop kept theirs 'alive' for well over a year using only moderate flow. But once the parazoanthids start to die, usually the sponge is already decaying. At least thats been my observation / experience.



If its the West Australian one he kept, you can briefly expose them to air, as many are exposed to air for a couple of hours during the huge daily tides.

Finally, a quick comment about their habitat. The surge in those intertidal bays is phenomenal - your vortech wouldn't come close to replicating it. And with the changing tides comes the plankton etc that probably feeds parazoanthids and the sponge.

Not trying to be negative though, as I realise a lot of inverts we keep adapt to tank conditions completely different to those in the wild. However, I still think the hardest part about keeping this combo is meeting the needs of the actual sponge, which may include flow as well as food.

HTH

Always good to hear from locals. Thanks for the info

 

[robot2222]

thats one of the coolest things i have ever seen.