SPS in trouble - could use a hand.

[t.priscu]

Hi guys,
Almost all my sps is in some type of trouble and i cannot figure it out.

To start.
nitrates: 0-5
mag 1200
alk - 7
calc - 410
ph - 8.2
salinity - 35.5
phosphates .12
temp 78

okay so recently i did mess around with my ligting schedule, some corals started to show signs of bleaching so i turned the lights back to what they were (8 hours LEDS, been this way for 6 months). This was about two weeks ago, i had expected everything to return to normal. However since this the SPS seem to keep getting worse and worse. Now i am having the opposite effect and the sps seem to be browning out, and several seem to almost be decaying. They have some sections of almost a grey fuzzy die off.

I took my water sample to LFS and they verified the above stats for tank.
I realize the phosphates are high, i recently added an algae scrubber and i think this has something to do with the phosphates shooting up. normally i cannot even read them. i dont think the low mag/calc/alk would be causing these kinds of issues however i did bump up the calc reactor just today a little. I have done several water changes since seeing i have higher phosphates. Still corals seem to slowly be browning out and getting worse.
Any thoughts on what the pictures below are showing?
Basically im hoping someone can say something like "yes this is caused by"
Thanks guys and i appreciate the help!

sunset monti - very browned out and dull and has that greyish dieoff

chilli pepper monti -- very browned out , has a section of that grey dieoff

green digi -- in big trouble seems to be dying off everywhere

 

[bobssecrtsn]

Normally po4 should be .003 or less, how fast did your po4 shoot up?

 

[downbeach]

What are you checking your PO4 with , i.e. meter, etc. it is on the high side, my SPS will show signs of browning when it gets to .05.
You might read through this to see if anything looks familiar:

http://www.chucksaddiction.com/coraldisease.html

 

[t.priscu]

Thanks for the link guys. I think the Phosphates shot up very quickly. Once the scrubber was added a month or so later any stray algae i had in the tank or frag tank died off quickly. Im wondering if this caused some type of phosphate spike? i have done lots and lots of large water changes lately. Im taking my R/O water to the LFS to be tested just to see if there is anything wierd going on there.

I agree Phosphates should be lowered but would they alone cause this type of damage / tissue dying?

 

[t.priscu]

What are you checking your PO4 with , i.e. meter, etc. it is on the high side, my SPS will show signs of browning when it gets to .05.
You might read through this to see if anything looks familiar:

http://www.chucksaddiction.com/coraldisease.html

oh sorry missed this question. I have a normal API phosphate test kit but my LFS said this one wasnt very good and to switch, im not sure which test kit they used to come up with .12 though.

I'll pick up a Hanna phosphate checker, is that what is recommended?

 

[jerpa]

The Hanna Phosphorus Checker(736) has a lower resolution and is more suited to the extremely low levels we are trying to achieve.

 

[t.priscu]

Ty Jerpa, I will go with a hanna checker then.

Flow coudlnt be causing this could it?
I recently switched to tunze's and using reef angel to create a wave.
Its a pretty big wave with more flow than i had before.

If getting the phosphates down alone through water changes will save the corals alone will fix everything i'm certainly going to do that, im just afraid of doing that and watching the tank for several weeks and they keep getting worse because im missing something else.

Any other ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

I wouldn't recommend the ULR checker, I've had that one and it gives really bad readings, I myself have the regular po4 checker and I've been getting accurate results

 

[t.priscu]

When you say the regular po4 checker which do you mean?
Thank you

 

[t.priscu]

Another coral picture to see if i can get any other ideas besies Phosphates or are we pretty sure thats the only issue and with a huge water change this could be fixed?

Green cap one month ago today.

Green cap today, seriously hurting.

Thanks guys.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

Hanna instruments has 2 types of po4 checker , phosphorus ULR which reads ppb (you can do calculations to get ppm) and the regular Hanna po4 that reads ppm,

 

[Mr. Bill]

I agree Phosphates should be lowered but would they alone cause this type of damage / tissue dying?

Indirectly, yes. PO4 causes the coral to become photo-inhibited, making it more sensitive to light and prone to bleaching, browning, and dying under normal reef lighting conditions. You might consider either shortening the photoperiod a bit further, or if possible, lower the intensity until you get your phosphates down.

 

[t.priscu]

Alright thank you for all the help guys.
and mr.bill that was a very good explanation so i appreciate it!

I will lower the intensity for now until the phosphates are in check and then begin raising them back up once it looks like the corals are bouncing back with color and polyp extension.

Thanks again guys

 

[Mr. Bill]

You're quite welcome.

Good luck!

 

[t.priscu]

Mr.Bill ,
If i could bother you again with a question. Looking at the first pictures I posted , would you call that area of "die off" as in dead tissue coming off the coral or is that some type of disease? I looked through the link provided earlier and it didn't resemble any of the diseases shown in the pictures to me.

 

[Mr. Bill]

I'm not seeing anything that resembles any diseases, either.

 

[t.priscu]

took water sample back to lfs tonight. phosphates are .03 , which i thought was down alot in just under a week where it was .12 . i guess now i just sit and wait with the leds turned down a little and hope everything works out.

thanks again for every ones help.

 

[greg1786]

I don't mean to post in your thread but maybe my question could help you out once answered. I keep sps and soft corals and my phosphates are very close to yours actually. I too have apI test kit and it reads zero but I know it cannot detect lower than .25. so I have my lfs check it once a week and its always very steadily at .09. my sps are all doing very well and are not only very colorful but growing rapidly as well. My phos however have never made a significant swing like yours either in the passed 4 months since I started keeping sps. so my question(s) is/are, if my sps are doing well at the phos level similar to what appears to be killing his, why do you guys think its the phosphates. Or is it more directly related to the fact that mine remain constant and my sps are acclimated to such po4 but because his sps are acclimated to a lower po4 and now being subject to a big swing in a short period of time??


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[watchguy123]

Generally when things are going bad, it is a host of problems. Lots of little things adds up to croaking coral. On the other hand, if you can identify one element specifically that is out of whack, perhaps correcting that will help steer everything back on course. The difficulty is identifying what parameters are off kilter. My guess is when the scrubber came on board, things went wacko. I am not suggesting that scrubbers are bad. But algae is not supposed to die off suddenly. What should happen is that the algae will starve slowly as nutrients that it requires disappear. A sudden die off is certainly suspicious of something being out of whack. Testing all parameters is appropriate but what has been alluded to, is that Hanna checkers are suspect and so are all other test kits and so are LFS testing your parameters. Our test kits are all questionable in accuracy and reproducibility--they suck. But they are the best we have. So your phosphates spiked and they should not have, your algae suddenly died and it should not have. Your alk is low and so is your magnesium. Your alk is getting critically low, not a lot of room left for buffering and your pH may be wacky with a 7 alk. It is likely not just one of these things but all of them. Our reef tanks are fragile and dramatic swings in parameters makes stuff croak. Stability is really the key. You need to tune up whatever parameters you find out of whack, do it slowly and ride this out. And yes, your coral are really stressed out, and the grey stuff is coral checking out. It is still recoverable but your corals if they survive will take a long time to color up again. Go slow and easy or you will crash. I apologize for not being able to identify any one thing for you to correct but it is really hard being on the outside and looking in. Before you react to all these changes taking place, you kind of need to rethink and reevaluate what you have or have not done in the last months leading up to this. This all may relate to the change in your lights and photoperiod. The lighting change could be solely responsible for the bleaching and greying of your coral. Good luck.

 

[mhucasey]

I would say that with the graying out of the montiporas and the general condition of the corals check for pests first, like nudibranchs, and then low potassium next.
Normally potassium of most salt mixes is fine and its not an issue, but a few have very low levels. I was having some of the same issues and found out that the Red Sea Coral Pro salt I was using was very low in potassium. After bringing the value up to a bit over 400, the change in color, growth, and overall health was stunning. Your LFS should be able to test for potassium for you if you don't want to buy a kit.