Staghorn and Elkhorn corals...extinct?
- Thread starter MrMikeB
- Start date
Good stuff airinhere. It's seems that it's not so much about achieving a solution-just being part of a "cause", and/or fighting for a "cause" is sufficient.
Thanks to Al Gore and his invention of the internet, selling and trading frags is much more feasible. Not to mention that because there is so much valuable information available online that helps us take better care of our critters so that we have a better chance of supplying each other with good stuff. Can we create our own self-sustaining supply?
I saw a show about a huge coral farm in Fiji. They take one large coral and frag it, grow it for awhile, frag it again and then ship it. Maybe we should go collecting there.
Thanks to Al Gore and his invention of the internet, selling and trading frags is much more feasible. Not to mention that because there is so much valuable information available online that helps us take better care of our critters so that we have a better chance of supplying each other with good stuff. Can we create our own self-sustaining supply?
I saw a show about a huge coral farm in Fiji. They take one large coral and frag it, grow it for awhile, frag it again and then ship it. Maybe we should go collecting there.
MrMikeB
New member
Sure these corals are not the prettiest in the group, and are very difficult to keep so most people probably could care less. The discussion was more or less to discuss this strategy in the name of conservation. As precedents are set, it is very difficult to fight the trend,
Today, the 'ugly' corals - tomorrow, who knows?
Today, the 'ugly' corals - tomorrow, who knows?
coralite
registered member
Honestly there is very little demand for either staghorn or elkhorn in the American aquarium hobby. This is no doubt due in part to the fact that these two corals are not particularly attractive at typical aquarium sizes. The key exerpts i got from the NOAA listing is that
"We determined the major stressors (i.e.,
disease, elevated sea surface
temperature, and hurricanes) to these
species’ persistence are severe,
unpredictable, likely to increase in the
foreseeable future, and, at current levels
of knowledge, unmanageable."
I dont know that this will really change much a far as the protection status of these corals but it may elevate their visibility in terms of protection legislation and funding.
"We determined the major stressors (i.e.,
disease, elevated sea surface
temperature, and hurricanes) to these
species’ persistence are severe,
unpredictable, likely to increase in the
foreseeable future, and, at current levels
of knowledge, unmanageable."
I dont know that this will really change much a far as the protection status of these corals but it may elevate their visibility in terms of protection legislation and funding.
MrMikeB
New member
The Coral Reef Conservation Act is up for renewal (from 2000 to 2007). They did add a couple categories for this year for grant monies for the research and understanding of bleaching and like diseases that have is running rampant on our reefs. So there is definitely a shift in not just conservation in general, but how to battle the downturns and the real threats to our oceanic friends.
airinhere
New member
And this is where 'ulterior motives' come into play.
Hasty legislation is being drawn up to create an unnecessary and potentially misguided restricted status around a few species of uninteresting and currently heavily controlled species of coral.
This really only has an impact on people who were recieving their primary source of income from these species of coral. In effect, the researchers and scientists involved in this sort of research.
Being well-educated people, they quickly realized the limited funding available for this sort of research. So now, after appealing to the political powers that be, they have enacted a legal shield around their work. This legal shield also provides them with an easy opportunity that is clearly defined for appealing to get federal grants and financial backing for their research.
I am not trying to say that this is the result of greedy sciuentists.
I am trying to say that these researchers have witnessed a trend in the enviromental sciences where this sort of activity is generously rewarded and where the resarcher is provided a real opportunity to get financial backing.
This is happening all over the place. Some of the laws enacted seem almost counter productive, but they do legitamize some very profitable businesses and research teams.
Wake up and stop believing what all the smart people are telling you on the T.V.
They just want your money and obedience.
Work the system people. It is very productive
Hasty legislation is being drawn up to create an unnecessary and potentially misguided restricted status around a few species of uninteresting and currently heavily controlled species of coral.
This really only has an impact on people who were recieving their primary source of income from these species of coral. In effect, the researchers and scientists involved in this sort of research.
Being well-educated people, they quickly realized the limited funding available for this sort of research. So now, after appealing to the political powers that be, they have enacted a legal shield around their work. This legal shield also provides them with an easy opportunity that is clearly defined for appealing to get federal grants and financial backing for their research.
I am not trying to say that this is the result of greedy sciuentists.
I am trying to say that these researchers have witnessed a trend in the enviromental sciences where this sort of activity is generously rewarded and where the resarcher is provided a real opportunity to get financial backing.
This is happening all over the place. Some of the laws enacted seem almost counter productive, but they do legitamize some very profitable businesses and research teams.
Wake up and stop believing what all the smart people are telling you on the T.V.
They just want your money and obedience.
Work the system people. It is very productive
kevin95695
Member of the Registry
We should give them coral scientists test kits, and monitoring probes and pay them to live on a boat to test the params on the reefs for a year or so and be done with it. Come back with graphs fellas!
I mean if we can do it in our tiny little polluted boxes of water...
I mean if we can do it in our tiny little polluted boxes of water...
philter4
New member
I live and dive here in south FL where both of these sp are native, first neither should be in hobbyiests tanks as both are already protected by other laws through out their range. It is illegal to take any stoney coral throughout the caribbean (or the USA for that matter). One of the biggest problems is it is legal for hotels to reclaim beach front. What this does is silt out huge areas of reef, then as storms hit it resilts them with erosion of the new beach sand. If they really are serious about protecting them they have to come up with a plan that allows the beach, which equals huge tourist dollars, with conservation or we will never win the fight to save not only these corals, but the whole habitat.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Just my 2 cents worth.
airinhere
New member
I am not saying that the current method is not an effective one. It is a really good method. For the researchers.
For the rest of us, it means that unless we can go visit the thigs being studied, all other access has been removed in a legal manner.
This is the part I disagree about. Even if each individual were to go out and break off a piece of coral and tke it home for personal use, the impact would likely be marginal.
Compared to the impact commercial uses have on these organisms, personal activities are almost completely pointless.
But there is a point.
I do not like losing any of my personal freedoms.
And this is where I have a problem with enviro-sciences.
Why should my personal activity come into question when it has no significant impact? Why are commercial outlets allowed that are much more deleterious?
Why can I now be legaly prosecuted for doing something that has no real impact?
Freedom. Its all about what you are allowed to do.
Enviro-types do not like to hear about this mindset. They argue that they are saving the world.
But how can they when their leadership is so obviously corrupted?
Maybe I am just a cynic, but I do not buy any of this "save the world" patronizing that is being dished out en masse.
I just see a bunch of greedy old rich guys trying to tell me what I can and cant go do.
They just found a new way to tell me how to do it.
And this is how I see all of the so called "green" initiatives.
For the rest of us, it means that unless we can go visit the thigs being studied, all other access has been removed in a legal manner.
This is the part I disagree about. Even if each individual were to go out and break off a piece of coral and tke it home for personal use, the impact would likely be marginal.
Compared to the impact commercial uses have on these organisms, personal activities are almost completely pointless.
But there is a point.
I do not like losing any of my personal freedoms.
And this is where I have a problem with enviro-sciences.
Why should my personal activity come into question when it has no significant impact? Why are commercial outlets allowed that are much more deleterious?
Why can I now be legaly prosecuted for doing something that has no real impact?
Freedom. Its all about what you are allowed to do.
Enviro-types do not like to hear about this mindset. They argue that they are saving the world.
But how can they when their leadership is so obviously corrupted?
Maybe I am just a cynic, but I do not buy any of this "save the world" patronizing that is being dished out en masse.
I just see a bunch of greedy old rich guys trying to tell me what I can and cant go do.
They just found a new way to tell me how to do it.
And this is how I see all of the so called "green" initiatives.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Why do I get a speeding ticket on an empty highway?
Not to quibble, but there are any number of things that cause no harm, but are illegal.
airinhere
New member
Yes, but how often do you hear about how driving too fast uses fuel too fast and so we, the general population should look at more economical cars and drive at moderate speeds to reduce our overall fuel consumption?
Thus we have hybrid cars and (among other reasons) posted speed limits.
Of the worlds fuel consumption total, private passenger cars are not the most wasteful outlet. Look into almost any of the commercial/business ventures out there and you see the real danger to our enviroment. Shipping companies, airlines, freight haulers. The infrastructure that makes our society work.
Why dont the activists target such profitable companies?
Simple. The companies fight back and they fight dirty.
We dont. We say, oh my god! I had no idea.
And then we buy hybrids and do just what we are told.
Thus we have hybrid cars and (among other reasons) posted speed limits.
Of the worlds fuel consumption total, private passenger cars are not the most wasteful outlet. Look into almost any of the commercial/business ventures out there and you see the real danger to our enviroment. Shipping companies, airlines, freight haulers. The infrastructure that makes our society work.
Why dont the activists target such profitable companies?
Simple. The companies fight back and they fight dirty.
We dont. We say, oh my god! I had no idea.
And then we buy hybrids and do just what we are told.
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