Startin' a pony tank!!

T

thejoie

New member
First one!
I've been in salt water for almost two years now. I started out with a two gallon nano which i had for a year. I moved up to a 30 gallon last summer. It's mainly a reef tank with only 2 fish in it. I keep corals and just got my first anemone (I wanted to make sure my tank was stable).
I was going to set up a nano reef again. I love the small tanks and I saw a 6.6 gallon that I loved. I've always loved sea horses. Who doesn't. And for the last few weeks I've been reading everything I could about them. I've gone about 32 pages into this forum..lol.

I think I'm ready to start another tank!
I really like the 6.6 gallon but I decided to go with something that'll be better for the horses. So something taller.
I went to Petco today and they had a 2 gallon hex that I liked a 3 gallon regular tank. I couldn't decide between them so I left it alone and figured I'd come on here and see what you guys think.

I know a gallon isn't that big of a difference but I just want to do what's best for these little guys. Is the gallon difference really going to be that major? I know in a 2-5 gallon I can keep anywhere between 4-10 sea horses... but what about food ratios. I was thinking about going with about 6-8 horses. So I dunno.. 2 or 3 gallons...

I saw a lot of people like the Azoo palm filters. I saw a Art Deco Nano filter at Petco that was made for tanks up to 3 gallons, you think if I add a little sponge to the end of it it'll be ok for the little guys?

I want to take this slow and make sure that I do everything right :)
 
Yikes! For water quality alone, I never work with anything in salt less than a 20 gallon and I find anything over 40 to be better. I have a 42 hex (oceanic) that I have had for many years. I have problems keeping it stable because it is so small. In my opinion, (and I have limited experiences with ponies, but many years of saltwater/freshwater experience) I think you should look into at least a 20 gallon for seahorses. They eat often and produce much waste and would pollute anything as small as 2 to 5 gallons. Seriously, the tank would cost less than the seahorse anyway, so best to start with something that it is reasonably sized. Good luck.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10584748#post10584748 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FishyMel
I think you should look into at least a 20 gallon for seahorses.
Click to expand...

i thought dwarfs shouldnt be kept in anything above 10 gallons because of their size and how hard it is to feed them
 
Dwarves won't work in a nano reef. They need a specialized setup without corals, or at least, without most corals due to the need for panacur. There also can be no tankmates, and inverts are VERY limited.
If you want to do a specialized dwarf setup, I still wouldn't recommend anything smaller than 5 gallons, 10 would be good too. Dwarves can be kept in larger tanks, it just requires a different way to take care of them. There are many many ways of keeping DSH, so which tank and filtration you use all depends on what you want to do. If you want to keep dwarves, I suggest you focus your reading here http://forum.seahorse.org/index.php?showforum=3 where all of the threads are about dwarf seahorses. There is even a series of threads on building a virtual dwarf tank to help people plan their first dwarf tank. Do a search on that forum for "virtual tank". This is also a good article here http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/dwarfKeeping.shtml and there is a book titled The Complete Guide to Dwarf Seahorses in the Aquarium by Alisa Wagner Abbott.
 
I've read that article by Alisa Abbott, she seems like the dwarf expert :)
To quote her:

"Housing:

Seahorses spend most of their day hitched to plants so they will need plastic plants such as sea grass or live marine plants such as Caulepra to hold on to. Dwarfs do best in smaller tanks. You can happily house them in anything from a fishbowl with filtration all the way up to a 10 gallon. The use of the 10-gallon is not recommended for beginners due to feeding concentrations. Newly hatched brine shrimp are very small!! The larger the tank, the more brine shrimp that is needed to concentrate feeding. When using the 10-gallon tank you would also need to house at least 10 dwarfs to even out the concentration so there is less die off. I find a 2 or a 5-gallon to be the best size and food concentration is easier. A 2-gallon tank can easily hold 5 pair including any babies that they may have."

That's why I thought I could go that small.
Hmm.... is there something I'm missing?? lol.. I'm the beginner- you guys are the experts!!

I wasn't planning on putting anything in there with them except for some snails.... i have my 30 gallon for the corals :)
Originally I was intending on doing a smaller reef tank but thought better of it and decided to do a sea horse tank instead.

I'm going to check out that "virtual tank" thing! Thanks for the advice!!
 
Basically, feeding concentrations are an issue, but... seahorses put a HUGE bioload on a system so trying to keep them in a small tank is a constant effort to keep parameters in check. As in, daily water changes, every day for the rest of your dwarves lives... dwarf care is still evolving, but it seems like the more experienced keepers are beginning to believe that larger tanks are possible. While feeding density isn't as easy, and it isn't as easy to find your dwarves and you won't always be able to see them, they will hunt, and water quality (and quality of life for the dwarves) will be better. I've seen a lot of threads with new dwarf keepers doing everything "right" for the dwarves, and still losing all of them. It just seems like it would be so much easier for a new keeper to have fewer battles from the start.
 
To share my experiences with you, I started with dwarf seahorses a little over three years ago. My first tank was a standard 2.5 gal, with which I failed miserably. I couldn't keep water parameters stable even with regular water changes.

Switching to a standard 5 gal, I met with better success as water parameters stabilized. I still wasn't happy with the condition of the tank or the frequency that I needed to do maintenance and water changes to keep those parameters stable.

I then switched to a 10 gal tank. Finally I was satisfied with the condition of the tank as well as the balance between tank maintenance and water parameters. The only issue I had, at the time, was increasing temperaturs (ie: 78F and above at times) were causing deaths. I added an Ice Probe chiller and the tank has been running successfully for the last 2 1/2 years.

The oldest of my dwarfs, in my care for two years, died earlier this year. The majority of the dwarfs I currently have I aquired in September of last year, so I've had them just about a year.

While it's quite possible to house dwarfs in a small tank, IMO, you'll meet with greater success if you start out with a larger tank.

The book referenced above, by Alisa Abbott is full of useful information a new dwarf hobbyist needs. There are a few items I disagree with the author on, but overall the book is a "must read" for new dwarf hobbyists.

Tom
 
I've seen 10 gallon tanks where there is a divider... and on one half the tank the equpitment is held. Including a skimmer if need be. And a bigger/better filter. What do you think of that?
 
Thanks for the compliment :) As you can see from the pic, I don't use a divider. Personally, I don't see a need for one. I don't use a skimmer on such a small tank. The only equipment on the tank is a filter, and I can live with seeing the filter tube/sponge in the main tank.

People have divided their dwarf tanks and use the partitioned side as a fuge - a place to culture pods and such for alternate foods. Again, I just don't like the look of a divided tank. It's a hassle keeping the actual partition clean. I don't like looking in a tank and seeing a white partition partially covered in algae. Makes the tank look "dirty" IMO. Also, if I were to culture foods it would be in seperate culture tanks.

I don't criticize specific hobbyists with divided tanks, I just don't encourage people to use them if they ask for my opinion :)

Tom
 
you're on Seahorses.org forum too. I've been reading that place like crazy :)

How many seahorses do you have in a 10 gallon?
I can imagine quite a lot!

I dug through your previous posts to find a summary of your set up.
Any problem with the Aquaclear having too strong of a current?
I also noticed you got stuff from seawater express.. i was thinking about getting their dwarf start up kit. Is it worth it? Is their rock/sand/plants usually pest free?

Ok.. last thing. You got WC seahorses. SOOOOOO many people don't think it's a good idea. What are your thought...

Thanks soo much for everything!
You've been an awesome help already. I totally see what you mean about the divider. Good point.
 
Yeah, I'm on sh.org as well :) I had, at one point, 30+ adults and some fry in the 10 gal tank. Currently, I have 11 of the year-old adults in the tank. There are another 20 I received about four weeks ago in QT right now that will be added to that tank shortly.

I use the smallest AquaClear on the tank. No problem at all with the current. When I feed (twice a day) I turn the flow all the way down for about an hour, then I turn it back up.

I bought 10 lbs of LR in addition to caulerpa prolifera from seawaterexpress. I really believe using that hydroid-free live rock made a huge difference in keeping water quality in check.

As long as you take certain precautions (ie: deworming and using a QT tank for a few weeks) I have no problem with those who purchase WC dwarfs. All my dwarfs were/are WC.

Tom
 
hmm...

any ideas where i can find some articles about freshwater dips and and anything else i might need to do for WC horses?

Did you still treat the liverock with boiling/hypersalinty. Or us pancur (i thinkkkk I remember that right) to make sure there were no hydroids (this word makes me think of starwars haha).

I think I'm finally getting the hang of all this stuff!! :)
 
Sorry, didn't know you were talkin' dwarfs. I hadn't heard of anyone ever starting with dwarfs as they are the most difficult to keep from what I have read. (Of course, I am reading the same stuff you are reading so you have all the same info I do.

Still, I would recommend a 10 gallon, even for dwarfs because the one thing I know with longtime marine hobby experience is that water parameters are so much easier to set and keep, in a bigger system. I just can't even imagine a stable system that is less then that, other then some of the little nano reefs that don't have a heavy food volume being introduced.
 
I started out with that 3-Gal. from Petco that you mentioned above and wish I would have gone bigger. I don't have stability issues, just would like more space. The tank was running/seeding for about a year before I added any dwarfs, That may or may not have helped.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10595331#post10595331 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thejoie
hmm...

any ideas where i can find some articles about freshwater dips and and anything else i might need to do for WC horses?

Did you still treat the liverock with boiling/hypersalinty. Or us pancur (i thinkkkk I remember that right) to make sure there were no hydroids (this word makes me think of starwars haha).

I think I'm finally getting the hang of all this stuff!! :)
Click to expand...

We can help with the FW dips when you're ready for that. They aren't difficult to do. As far as the rock... I didn't boil the rock as that would have defeated the purpose of buying live rock as the colonized bacteria would have died.

I didn't use panacure, either. Using panacure renders the tank useless for quite a few useful inverts that can be part of your cleanup crew...such as spaghetti worms.

What you CAN do is mix some saltwater to a salinity of 1.040 and hold the rock in the bucket for a few minutes. IF there are any amphipods in the rock (which you don't want in a dwarf tank) they will jump out of the rock and into the bucket.

Any other questions.... feel free to ask :)

Tom
 
I'd be lost without forums :)

I'm going out this weekend and getting my tank/lights/some fake plants.

I'm thinking of doing both fake and real.
I am going to do liverock from seawater express and do the hypersalinity thing juuuuuuust to make sure.
I'm really excited.
My boyfriend is excited too. He suggested I look into seahorses to put into my 30 gallon saltwater tank. So he's all for this too which is nice :)

I'll be back when I have my equiptment. I still have a while before I'll actually be able to get the ponies (cycle and stuff..)
Could I use snails from my 30 gallon tank? I heard of people "cleaning" their snails and scrubbing shells... what's that all about?
 
You should look into Natures Ocean "Nutri-Seawater"http://www.naturesocean.com/nutri_sea_water2.htm it's a little pricey for saltwater IMO, but can really reduce your cycle times. Everyone that I've heard that has used it has had instant cycle times. It's loaded with bacteria (the good stuff) and no hydroids or other nastys that you would not want to introduce to your tank.
 
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