starting over

[pufferbob]

A few of you have seen my problems, some of you have tried to help. Thank you all!
I am new to marine and thus far have had nothing but hell. I was down to 1 fish in a hospital tank that was set up in an emergency situation. It wasn't doing any better than my main setup.
Where I stand now.
My last remaining fish has moved to the lfs to hopefully recover in thier sump. I cannot garantee myself he will live, but I am doing all I can to not loose this one too. The hospital, even with 50% wc every other day, was doing more bad than good. After a wc this morn, amonia= .30 nitrite= +5.0 nitrate= 110. My main tank which I had begun 1 week ago today a "recycle" (broke down, 100% wc, clean and remove 95% of bed, rinse filters, refill, fishless attempt using jumbo shrimp) was "short cycling". Amonia never spiked (today was .40), nitrite had a bad jump start (4.0), nitrate over 150. Don't ask me how, I will never know the answer (hoping maybe one of you might get it and tell me).
Like I said befor, my valentini has moved, giving me time to reset. I was able and fortunate enough today to get a Visi-Jet Ps100 skimmer for just under $50 on ebay, which should be here by end of next week. I trashed all of my water out of the main and hospital. I trashed my live (which i think had actually died) bed. I bought an aquarium pharmacuticals marine lab, a new bag of coralife salt, new sponges and charcoal for my 2 aquaclear 50 hob filters (I know, not good mech. filter for salt, but don't have room for sump). Tomorrow I will be cleaning the glass of my 29g and filters, and adding new water. I will be putting in lr (not sure how much just yet, but will be going very slow with additions) I think about 2 lbs to start. I am going to be bad and do the evil, dreadful, less desired fishy cycle, using I think 3 or 4 damsels. Most importantly, this time, BARE BOTTOM!
I am wanting feedback here guys... Not the bad "this is where you messed up this time" type stuff, I have seen enough of that lately... I want to know if anyone has any other ideas or pointers for me to get off to a better start this time. Do any of you have remarks about the products I have choosen to use (salt, skimmer, lab) this go 'round?
This is a 29g, using 2 aquaclear 50 hob filters (200 gph each = 400gph) for mech filter and circulation. How much lr in the end for bio? Visi-Jet Ps100 skimmer. 150 watt heater. 2x 40w "aquarium light" strips.
Thank you again, EVERYONE!

 

[dchao]

pufferbob,

IMO, your setup will not work. You are taking the sand out, which is half of the filtration media gone! Therefore, you need find some other way to remove the dissolved organics before they start to break down. This is done by two ways, one, LARGE water flow for the entire tank (rather than just the surface movement from your HOB's), two, a LARGE skimmer (preferably in sump - sorry).

I think you should put sand back in. Take the conventional approach, BB is not really for beginner. BB is not that easy, it's best done with a drilled tank, a sump, and a close-loop.

 

[pufferbob]

I am adding a skimmer... As far as sand, it seems from what all I have read and learned from talking to hobbiest, my bed was part of my problem... It appears to have died, not holding up it's end of the deal... The previous bed was 1/2 "black snad" (not tahetian moon), 1/2 course live aggrogite at 2 1/2 - 3 inches deep.... If I do put a bed back in, what should I be looking for exactly? Will a 1/2 - 1 inch bed be sufice or do I need more? If more, how deep am I looking at?

 

[pufferbob]

BTW... I will befor stocking be adding a if not a couple of power head(s) for bottom circulation... I don't plan on stopping with the hob's and skimmer... The initial post is my today and tomorrow plan...

Is a skimmer rated up to 70 still too small for me?

 

[dchao]

I will only use Oolitic or Sugar-Sized sand. They don't trap detritus as bad as the course sand. 1-2 inch is fine, there will be enough surface area for the bacteria to colonize. You can seed it with live sand like you did before. To keep the sand bed clean, you will need to get a small clean up crew, or create a sand storm by a small powerhead, or siphon the top layer off and replace with new sand. You can also do DSB if you want to.

 

[dchao]

Most people run BB will have at least a needle-wheel type skimmer to extract dark consistant skimmate. Tthe cheapest one you can look at is the Coralife Super Skimmer (CSS), and all the way to the most expensive unit. This is because the skimmer is so crucial in the BB system.

Skimmer rated up 70G will be fine in a conventional system. But IMO, it will not remove all the dissolved organics in the water quick enough.

You can add a few power heads, but very soon your PH's will overtake your tank, that's why I suggested the close-loop to hide the pump.

 

[pufferbob]

Is there a sugar sized live sand availible? I will be doing pufferfish, is the only clean up crew I can use sucsesfully sand sifting goby? I am not familliar with "sand storm", is this just keeping all the sand moving? Or am I missing the point?

 

[dchao]

live sand is available from you LFS or local reef club.

Cerith snails (best) and some of my scarlet hermits clean the sand bed for me. Nassarius will do it too, but they are too slow, but they clean up the uneaten food very fast.

I use a small PH to gently blow detritus off the sand bed and into the water column deliberately, this a good way to feed my filter-feeding inverts and corals.

 

[pufferbob]

All I have found is the in bag aggrogite... If I am able to find sand, live at that, I will still have to seed it? I thought the purpose of live sand is that it came seeded or embeded.
Sand storm; so keep the ph set to low power sitting just high enough to stir water just above bed and not actualy move sand?
how will ph overtake tank? I thought the more flow, the better, I never heard of a downside to them befor.
Sorry if I seem ignorant to this, but I am trying to do the best I can and learn as much as possible to have a good experience. I know of alot of people who give up on marine after the first tank crash, I am not so willing to do so. I know that one day, this can be rewarding.

 

[dchao]

If you can't find live sand, that's OK, LR's will do it, just take longer.

Sorry, what I meant was PH's were unsightly. If you had too many of them, they looked like they were going to take over your tank, not your corals and fish.

"Sand storm; so keep the ph set to low power sitting just high enough to stir water just above bed and not actualy move sand?"

That's correct. Unless you have the PH's on a wave controller. You will have detritus settled down in some pockets on your sand bed. Best to blow it off with a small PH (everyday or every other day).

I think your second setup will be better than the first one. Now you have much more experience.

 

[pufferbob]

..Slowly grasping...
I can deal with the sight of ph's, I shouldn't need any more than 2 anyways... I think... From what I can tell about the skimmer I purchased, I think I will only be able to place it in-tank (hoping otherwise, hope it is hob), so I have gotten used to the in-tank factor idea of some of this equipment.

So minus a sump (which I cannot do), powerheads (comming soon purchase), *new* bed, janitors... Have I missed anything?
Thank you!

 

[dchao]

You need about 30 LBs of live rocks for a 30 gallon tank.

PH's, try the SEIO PH's, they provide a better flow pattern. Try two 620's to begin with.

I have not used Visi-Jet skimmer before, the two frequently pop up on this forum are the CPR Bak Pak and AquaC Remora. I am a Remora user myself.

 

[pufferbob]

As far as adding rock... Do I need to add it all now while I rebuild this tank, or is this something I can spead out over a couple of months?

The ph's that I know are readily availible here to me I cannot remember the name of... I know there is top fin, but I know that is not happenong, I value this project a little more than that... I do know the one I have had my eyes on have a self driven sweep, which I figured would be good for an all around good circulation, good for any potential dead areas...

 

[pufferbob]

Here it is... The one I have found here locally may be bigger/smaller, but this is what I am looking at 1 or 2 of...
http://www.petguys.com/pet-guys/-097612032280.html

 

[dchao]

One way is to mix dry rocks with LR's to save on cost. It's better to add all the rocks on day one so you have enough time for the bacteria to colonize all the rocks, and they can become an efficient biological filter. You can add LR's later, but make sure you cure them in a separate container first, avoid creating a mini-cycle in the main tank.


Skimmer, the advice is do not save on skimmer. Take a look at the Coralife Super Skimmer (under $100), almost everyone is having excellent result with it. Should be a better choice than the Visi-Jet.

The poster is using a CSS as HOB unit:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=762401

 

[dchao]

Avoid "Power Sweep". They'll stop working after a while.

Try SEIO here (poor man version of Tunze):

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12074&N=2004+113040

 

[MBuck]

Hi PufferBob,
I would agree with most of what Dchao is telling you. definitely add all you LR at once. I know it is a very expensive part of your setup, but just as important, if not more as the skimmer.

If you have acess to cured LR, take a small rubber made container and place your LR in it for transport home, even if you have them bag it in water, piece by piece, then place it in your container so it doesn't leak. It is imperative for it not to get too much "air" time. Place any dead or base rock under your new LR, as it will eventually seed the base rock, and become covered in coralline, etc....

Puffers eat small snails, fish, shrimp, etc....do not know what you are going to use for a cleaner crew. Perhaps a sand sifting star, don't know if it will eat one of those, you could also try the snails that burrow into the sand, such as a "moon" snail. I know this is not even the correct common name, but that's what my LFS calls them, then your puffer couldn't get to them...

You've already purchased your skimmer, so go ahead and try it out, if you are not happy with it, seel it back on Ebay, and buy something you think will work better.

I have also heard that the "sweeping" PH are junk, I personally use a couple maxi-jets, and Rio. As far as dead spots in your water, use a turkey baster to blow over your LR and get any of the trapped detrius out before you do a water change. Works perfect, $1.00 at the dollar store!

Always top off your evaproated water before doing your water changes too, I know it seems like a waste of water, but when saltwater evaporates, the salt stays, so each time you do a water change without topping off first, you are adding that much more salt to your setup...

Please do not cycle with damsels, if you are adding LR, and using LS you will get a cycle anyways, if you have to, add a shrimp or something to the mix, raw, and uncooked, throw it in, and let it decay, that will create a cycle for you!!
Besides, if you cannot catch them out of the tank, your puffer will eventually have them for lunch, why waste the $$ buying them, to end up feeding another fish with them?

You can still use your carbon filters once a week or so to clean up the yellow that gets in the water, but notnecessary to have them all the time, if your skimmer is working properly.

Don't forget your puffer will need some hard crustaceans or similar items to eat to keep his teeth in check, otherwise you will need to trim them....

Lots of luck!! Kepp asking questions, even thought people on here can be kinda nasty, I just lookto the next post hoping for some good info that I can try or learn from...

HTH!