Step-by-step account of my first reef (with lots of pics)

[KingfishJohn]

I have a 30 gallon Barebottom SPS tank with one fish in it, a Filamented Flasher wrasse. I have over 100x turnover with a Euroreef CS6-2 skimming the tank. I also do weekly waterchanges are replace calcium via a Korallin 1302 calcium reactor. The tank is cooled bya 1/10th hp chiller and lit by a 250w DE metal halide fixture.

I'm just wondering what kind of fish are in your tanks, especially your predator tank, and maybe I can shed a little perspective on to you.

I don't know how many fish you've worked around but I hope you'd agree that every fish has a different personality. From this, I don't feel far off saying that this particular fish was deranged. This could have stemmed from being beat up on while he was small. Your blanket statement of never to kill a fish unless diseased is just untrue.

 

[ToTaLCHaoS13]

Since things got a little heated in here, let me try to settle it down with a simple question. I have a clown fish which has begun swimming in tight circles tonight. It has been in my tank for a week. I checke all the water parameters and everything was fine. Is this normal behavior?

 

[Dudester]

ToTaLCHaoS13 - I can't give you a good answer about your clownfish. Is it swimming over a potential host? How does it look today? Mine will occasionally swim circles around it's host frogspawn, and of course it swims through it between the different heads, but I can't say I've seen it swim in tight circles as you've described. Maybe the Fish Forum would be a better place to ask that question.

Last night during the feeding, I accounted for all 3 of my peppermint shrimp. I guess the nassarius snails were simply doing their job and eliminating a molted exoskeleton (good snails). The shrimp were all at their old tricks, again stealing food from my blastos. I defended the coral with my turkey baster and kept the shrimp at bay so that the blastos could get a decent meal in peace. I'm happy to say that despite the loss of several large blasto polyps in the past, I now have a total of 12 heads that are in different stages of growth. The original colony that I purchased had 7 polyps. This is a finicky coral but fortunately it does seem to grow new polyps quite readily. The Rainford's goby once again did not eat despite my attempts to provide it with an easy meal.

This morning's flashlight tour was not so pleasant. I couldn't find the little goby and I fear that it has passed . The Favites coral also was not extending its polyps, which also has me concerned since every other time I've examined it in the dark, the polyps were out. I hope this isn't the beginning of something bad. I'll be sure to feed it the H2O Coral Food tonight (yep, that's really what it's called) and hopefully I'll see a response. Wow this hobby is a real roller coaster, eh?

 

[bcoons]

Dudester - Please 'splain to me again what flatworms look like. Are they like really tiny little pieces of confetti that stick to and slowly move around on the front glass wall of the tank?

If so, maybe I should have dipped my new coral in something before putting it in my tank. I think I'm gonna have to read up on this "dipping" thing.

Bruce

 

[Dudester]

If by "really tiny little pieces of confetti" you mean 0.5-2mm gray or red wormlike creatures with a bifurcated tail, and if by "stick to and slowly move around on the front glass wall of the tank" you mean slither along with a slithering, wiggling, side-to-side action, then I'm sorry to say my friend -- you have flatworms. Looks like we've both been bitten by the same LFS. I didn't dip my new Favites coral because I already have flatworms (although that's no excuse since I could have gotten something else). I suggest you siphon that sucker out IMMEDIATELY, as well as any others you see. Get yourself a bottle of Flatworm eXit and treat the tank with a double dose. You do not want this to become a problem, trust me! Here's my flatworm siphoning tool. It's just some rigid tubing that I cut a bevel on one end hooked up to standard air line tubing.

You should not use the filter bag and instead, just place the other end of the air line tubing into an empty container (like an empty 1 gallon milk jug) and suck the worms out.

I'm still at work but received a confirmation call from home that my goby has died. This makes Dudester sad.

 

[bcoons]

Hmmmm, I just got a quick look at the critters before the lights went out, but I didn't see any bifurcated tail. They were pretty rectangular, and really small, about the size of the little aphid like things (I forget the real name that starts with A). Maybe they're something else (I hope.) I'll get a better look tomorrow.

Sorry to hear again about the fish. It must be extra hard on you, with your line of work. I'm an old, mean, cold-hearted engineer, and it still bugs the crap out of me when something I am responsible for dies on me. And it happens way too much in my tank. So far I've got a much higher survival rate on inverts and corals than with fish.

My big turbo snails are running around my tank desparately looking for stuff to eat. I'm afraid they'll starve. I'll bring two down to the reef club meeting for you. No need to trade anything yet, I'll just book it for future credit.

One thing I do want to learn from someone in the new club is how to do some simple fragging ( That's a really bad term for us Viet Nam era vets! ) of corals. The xenia elongata I got a while back has grown like crazy and is spreading multiple branches over several rocks now. I think I can cut off the branches, but I'm way too afraid to take a scalpel to it without some first hand instruction.

 

[Dudester]

I'll bring two down to the reef club meeting for you. No need to trade anything yet, I'll just book it for future credit.

Consider yourself on the list :thumbsup:
I'd also be very interested in a session on fragging, as well as proper ways to mount new coral frags. I know that at Marc's recent Next Wave meeting (or maybe it was at MASNA), they had a session on fragging. I'd love to see a transcript from that discussion, if there is one. Bruce, since your xenia is spreading so well, you might consider placing some smaller pieces of rock rubble adjacent to your main colonies. The xenia will probably spread to those rocks, creating instant frags without the need for scalpeling.

Something that might be helpful before going to a Reef Club meeting would be a discussion on "What You Need To Bring To A Reef Club Meeting." I'll go ahead and start with a list of what I think would be important. Please, everyone, add to this list as you see fit, as I've never been to a reef club meeting and tomorrow will be my first.

1. A small cooler or insulated box for transporting items for trade (frags, snails, macroalgae, etc.).
2. Bags and rubber bands for placing new acquisitions into.
3. Fragging tools like a bone cutter and Dremel tool, although I would assume that these items would be present at the host site.
4. Cash to buy stuff if it's available for sale or if you have no items to trade.

That's all I can think of off-hand. What else?

 

[KingfishJohn]

All you'll need for this meeting is a healthy appetite and yourself truthfully. I'm sure Clint will be open to selling a few frags but this first meeting of the club is really to just get to know each other and establish that Austin is a place that wants a reef club.

Future meeting could include fragging demos. I was even thinking about getting a group order together for fragging shears and possibly a dremel and corals. That way at the meeting, I could show everyone how to frag corals, they could try it, and they'd also have the equiptment and coral frags!

Like Mike said, putting a piece of rock rubble next to the xenia is the easiest way to frag them but clipping it, stabbing it with a toothpick, then rubberbanding that toothpick to a rock also works.

I know for a fact that Clint has fragging shears, not real sure on the dremel.

 

[bcoons]

OK, a couple of related questions you guys can probably answer.

1. When I bring a couple of the big snails down tomorrow for Mike, how to best transport? I assume I put them in a plastic bag with some tank water and seal the bag with the rubber band, just like John does at the LFS. But doesn't the LFS add some oxygen or oxygenating chemical to the water? Does it make a difference on how long it is safe to leave the snails in the bag?

2. Temperature - OK, I'll put the snails in the bag with some water. I go out to my truck at 12:45 or so. I'll put the bag in an ice chest in my truck. It may be hot if it's been in the truck awhile in the sun. I drive down to Cedar Park, takes about an hour. A/C is on and truck cools to 70F or so. I think the snails are still OK in the ice chest for awhile. We hang out at the reef club meeting and yak for awhile, maybe a couple of hours. Snails are still in the bag, in the ice chest, in the now hot truck. Still OK? Mike finally takes them home for acclimation in his tank. They've been in the bag with my tank water only for 5-6 hours. Is this going to be OK?

I realize the livestock is in bags and boxes for longer periods while being shipped across country, but aren't they drugged or something? And in controlled climate?

OK, now qiuck question on fragging of the xenia. John, remember when I bought him in March he was a little guy like this:

Now it's grown quite a bit and looks like this:

It has about five separate branches. So, from what I am hearing you can cut off one of the branches with sharp shears or a scalpel and it won't kill either side? Then you stab the trunk with a toothpick and rubberband it to a piece of rock rubble so it attaches? And all this doesn't hurt the animal? I think I understand the process, but would really like to see someone do it before I try it. I could cut the stalks as indicated with the black lines?

And one more.....

This is a pic of my frogspawn:

It has not been happy in my tank. After the first day or so, that's about as extended as it gets. The base, or stalk, is pretty long. I have it stuck down in the sand about an inch. I was wondering if I cut the stalk with a dremel or something at the line and epoxyed it to a rock up a little closer to the light if it would be happier? Does that long stalk have any advantages or disadvantages?

Sorry, Mike, didn't mean to hijack your thread. I guess I could have posted a new thread over on the corals forum, but we were talking about fragging, and I think I can get good info and answers from the folks that I know hang out here (on my home thread! )

Hope I didn't break any bandwidth limits.

Bruce

 

[alexk3954]

BCOONS- go to http://podcast.talkingreef.com/video/XeniaFrag.m4v . This might help to answer your xenia fragging question. Thats some really nice looking xenia by the way. I can't wait to get some stuff in my own tank and watch it grow out of control like that.

 

[Dudester]

John - Count me in on the group buy for fragging shears (although I can probably get better ones at work ).

Bruce - That xenia growth is fantastic! With that much proliferation in just a couple of months, why would you be at all worried about experimenting with the method that John described? If a frag doesn't make it, it would be replaced in a matter of weeks. I'd first place rock rubble beside it so you don't have to cut any - that's extremely safe and it would ensure that the new stalks are secure on the rock without stabbing them with toothpicks (which, of course, would also work). The ONLY downside to the rock rubble method is that, when you give/trade your xenia frags, you'd lose that rock as well. Big deal, right? If I were you, I'd be more concerned that your tank will be overgrown and dominated by that xenia if you don't keep it under control. This is a good problem to have compared to fish that won't live, right?

A long skeletal stalk on a frogspawn is neither good nor bad. Frankly, I think it makes it more heavy/stable and I wouldn't cut it off. If I were you, the only reason I'd frag the frog would be to be able to place different stalks in different locations of your tank to see where it thrives the best, since you said it isn't all that happy where it's located. If you did choose this option, cut it the way you drew on the xenia. I personally wouldn't cut it up just yet, but I'd probably move it to a different location in your tank with different light/flow conditions to see if it opened up more. JMO.

As far as the transport of your snails, here are a few more thoughts. Regarding temperature control, bag them just before you leave your house and place the bag directly into the cooler (without ice, of course). Your car will be cooled to a comfortable temp, and if the cooler's worth a darn, the temp inside the cooler shouldn't change. When you get to the meeting, take the cooler inside the house so it doesn't cook in your car. I'll put it in my cooler when I'm ready to leave, and voala, there you have it. Regarding the bagging of the snail, you're correct about the tank water and rubberband, but more importantly, the bag should be full of room air. The volume of water is secondary to the amount of air in the bag. There are even companies who mail snails on moistened newspaper only, no water at all! This saves on shipping costs and they usually arrive alive'n kicking. So fill that bag up with air (like John does with the bags at AA) and the snails will transport just fine. LFS do not add oxygen or chemicals to the bags, just room air. Don't blow air from your mouth into the bag. Room air contains 21% oxygen, whereas the air exhaled from your lungs has a significantly lower oxygen content (and a much higher CO2 content, which will also decrease the pH). Close the bag quickly and twist it up to trap the room air inside. Snails that are shipped cross-country are not drugged, and as far as temperature control, they usually come in styrofoam coolers, bagged as mentioned, with newspapers or similar insulation between the bags to prevent tumbling and to retain the ambient temperature in the transport container. I don't think newspapers will be necessary for this relatively short trip.

And no concerns about hijacking, mate. As I said, I learn from your questions and I'm sure other followers do as well.

Alex -

I can't wait to get some stuff in my own tank and watch it grow out of control like that.

In due time, grasshopper, in due time :smokin:

 

[bcoons]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7357019#post7357019 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dudester
Bruce - That xenia growth is fantastic! With that much proliferation in just a couple of months, why would you be at all worried about experimenting with the method that John described? If a frag doesn't make it, it would be replaced in a matter of weeks. I'd first place rock rubble beside it <b><i>so you don't have to cut any</i> </b>- that's extremely safe and it would ensure that the new stalks are secure on the rock without stabbing them with toothpicks (which, of course, would also work).

Hmmmm, "so you don't have to cut any" would imply that the animal is splitting as it spreads out on the other rocks. It isn't. It is still all one base with a lot of branches spreading out , so I would still have to do some cutting where I show the lines on the xenia. Right? Or do you mean I wouldn't have to cut any rock rubble? Oh well, we can talk tomorrow.

I'll do the smails as described. I have an oil less air compressor in the shop. I think I can blow the bag up with a little more air with it. It has no oil in the airstream (which would mess up paint) so I think it should be safe.

We'll have to talk about my frogspawn tomorrow. I've moved it around some and it hasn't been happy anywhere. I need some more suggestions of treatments.

I'm REALLY going to enjoy tomorrow and the new club.

 

[bcoons]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7356816#post7356816 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by alexk3954
BCOONS- go to http://podcast.talkingreef.com/video/XeniaFrag.m4v . This might help to answer your xenia fragging question. Thats some really nice looking xenia by the way. I can't wait to get some stuff in my own tank and watch it grow out of control like that.

Hey, thanks. Good link. I think I'll put that video on my iPod. Now I see how they do the toothpick thing.

Yeah, that xenia has really grown. I didn't realize it until I saw the pic I took a couple months ago.

 

[KingfishJohn]

Bruce -

Xenia growth is fantastic! Like Mike said, I'd be concerned you'll soon have a xenia forest! The xenia spreads with a common base of sorts but each individual stalk is a coral, sort of like each individual zooanthid is a coral but they all have a common mat. What Mike is saying, is that by putting rock rubble near the colony, they will spread on to the rubble where you can remove them with an easy incision away from the main colony.

If you do frag that frogspawn watch to make sure that the tissue has stopped where you are fragging it. If it feels slimy or like there is some kind of coating on the the bottom of the coral, chances are there is.

Also on the fragging workshop, I think I'll work out something for our club in conjunction with MAAST for this late summer to correspond with the 2nd Annual Lebowski Frag Swap lol. I'd love to get both clubs on a friendship basis and get a really good fragging workshop.

Mike was absolutely right on everything he said about you packaging the snails. Remember again, water is not nearly as important as air. With that I'll give you a little insight on how our animals are shipping to the LFS.

Tuesday 4pm: Order from wholesaler in LA for Wednesday delivery. Order is bagged THAT night by wholesaler. Oxygen is added to the bags, bags are stapled.

Wednesday 3pm: Order is supposed to be on the ground in ATX. The order was shipped from LAX at 9:00 am LAX time but it didn't go out then. It was shipped out at nearly 1pm, sitting in the not climate controlled warehouse. Arrives in Austin at 4pm, we receive a call FINALLY at 6:30pm that the order is on the ground and is ready to be received.

I hope in my car and experience lovely Austin traffic. Get to the airport at 7:30ish (store is closed now mind you) to receive the fish. It's about 40 degrees in Austin and the fish have been sitting in Austin for nearly 3 1/2 hours in styrofoam coolers and heat packs. Pick them up, get back to the store around 8, unload them and am done acclimating around 11.

I won't even go into how long these fish are in bags when originally coming in from Tonga... especially transhipped straight to Austin on the nearly 20 hour plane ride. Your snails should be fine lol

 

[Dudester]

Today I attended the Austin Reef Club's 1st meeting. We were treated to a beautiful tank filled with LE SPS colonies (not just frags). I got to meet my man Bruce (bcoons) who graciously gave me 3 mexican turbo snails to help combat the maroon hair algae in my tank.

They all arrived and acclimated well to my tank, and let me tell you, these things are HUGE! They immediately went to town on the algae in my tank, and even ate it off of the Astera snail shells. The smaller snails were being tossed around like twigs in a hurricaine. I've got to tell you, though, those turbos make me nervous. They're so big that when eating algae off of some rocks, they actually lift the rocks up off the substrate :eek1: . They're clumsy, too, and I'm afraid that they're going to knock over my SPS frags. They are already doing a great job on the algae, but I can't see keeping 3 of these monsters in my tank for a long time. Bruce, when/if you need some back, please let me know. And it was great to meet you and all the other 25 or so people who went to the meeting. Looking forward to the next one!

 

[bcoons]

I told you they were like big old bulldozers! But they are algae eatin' machines. LOL. They're kinda fun to watch plowing around. I thought they could move pretty quick (for snails.)

But, I can see your concern about them knocking over frags if they're not glued down (hell, even if they WERE glued down.) So when they're done chompin' on your algae, feel free to pass them on to someone else that needs them, or return them back to AA. (It's a lot closer drive for you ) I wouldn't want to see the critters starve for running out of food, and they cleaned out my 20L in about 4 days.

The Austin Reef Club meeting was great. Besides getting to meet all you guys, it was the first time I had actually seen a real honest to goodness home reefers aquarium with all the stuff that I usually just see on the internet. Clint's tank was just awesome! And just think, the one in your office is going to be three times bigger (and better!:bounce1: ) And I still need to get to see your 30g one of these days.

BTW, when are you going to update your other thread on the office tank with your new thinking?

Last night I ordered my Typhoon III RO/DI filter and a pressure booster pump. Now I need to design my "water plant" facility in my garage. Then help my son with the re-building of his FW planted tank, then do a WC on the wife's 55g FW tank, then ..... Shhheeessshhhh, it's never ending!

Bruce

 

[alexk3954]

Yay, I got my live rock yesterday (kaelini). It looks really nice, but my room smells as if someones dead, rotting body is in it. Anyway, I had some equipment questions for you guys.

Dudester- I noticed that you posted a picture of the cleaning of your remora skimmer. Does yours seem really loud? I can barely sleep in my room, but it is nice seeing that disgusting brown stuff come out of my water!

Bcoons- I am still deciding on what RO/DI unit to get. Do you like that typhoon III? That is probably my first choice.

 

[bcoons]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7364189#post7364189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by alexk3954
Yay, I got my live rock yesterday (kaelini). It looks really nice, but my room smells as if someones dead, rotting body is in it. Anyway, I had some equipment questions for you guys.

Dudester- I noticed that you posted a picture of the cleaning of your remora skimmer. Does yours seem really loud? I can barely sleep in my room, but it is nice seeing that disgusting brown stuff come out of my water!

Bcoons- I am still deciding on what RO/DI unit to get. Do you like that typhoon III? That is probably my first choice.

Hey, good deal on the rock. Hopefully the smell will go away in a couple of days, or even less. I never had to go through that. I bought my LR fully cured down in Austin, and then rushed it home into my tank in a cooler wrapped in wet newspaper. It was only out of the water about 1.5 hours, so I never had the big die-off and smell. I was probably lucky.

I studied RO/DI units quite a bit on the 'net for the last couple of months. I was finally down to a name brand high end unit (Spectrapure) and the somewhat cheaper Typhoon III from airwaterice.com. There were a LOT of recommendations for the Typhoon III system here on ReefCentral, so that is what I decided to go with. Since I live on the top of what passes for a hill here in Central Texas, my water pressure is only about 20 PSI on a good day. So I also had to get the pressure booster pump, an expense most folks won't have. Once I get the units and get to see the mounting system and physical dimensions I'll design my "water plant" to go on the wall of the garage.

And just for info, I don't know anything about the Remora skimmer, but my CPR BakPak 2R skimmer would be way too loud to put in a bedroom. I can usually hear it even over on the other side of the house.

Let us know how the rock cycling goes.

Bruce

 

[Dudester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7363347#post7363347 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bcoons
And I still need to get to see your 30g one of these days.

BTW, when are you going to update your other thread on the office tank with your new thinking?

Whenever you want to come to see it, please let me know. I'd be honored to have your critique. As far as updating the thread to the office tank, I'll probably get to that next week. My daughter just went down for her nap, so I'm going out to the garage to modify my salt-mixing MJ pumps.

Alex - I don't feel as though my Remora's that loud, but of course that's in comparison to the CPR overflow that's extremely loud, and my setup is in the living room. That being said, I couldn't have that skimmer running in my bedroom for sure.

For another RO/DI option, check out the one I'm using. You don't need to go with a 5-stage like I did, but I love mine and it's quite reasonably priced. There's a dual TDS monitor and the water coming out of my tap has a TDS of around 275. After leaving the RO membrane it's down to only 2, and after the dual DI resins it's down to 0. I could probably just use the membrane alone and it would be better than the water a lot of people out there use.

 

[alexk3954]

That being said, I couldn't have that skimmer running in my bedroom for sure.

If only I knew this before I set the tank up . Hopefully I will beable to get used to it.

My tank also seems to be cycling well. The arag alive must speed the process along as I already have detectable nitrates. That caught me off guard while I was testing. I was expecting only ammonia for a couple days, then nitrite for a couple days, then nitrates. What does a CPR overflow look like? Is it that PVC tube with lots of holes that is in your tank? I was considering adding an overflow so that I could add a refugium.

On a different note, how long does it take on average before you start noticing hitchhikers? All I have seen so far is a sponge. I saw a dead crab fall out of a rock when I was picking some good pieces, so there must be some life on the rock.