Step-by-step account of my first reef (with lots of pics)

[fishypets]

Five hours in you should see more P.E. IME

HOOKEM HORNS!!

 

[Dudester]

HOOKEM HORNS!! -- Ditto that!

It's now 4 hrs into the treatment, and interestingly I'm seeing a few more red bugs, but only on the millepora frag that previously did not base out or have any polyp extension. I'm guessing the bugs were possibly hiding inside at the base of the polyps, and the drug may be drawing them out (?). Corals and other livestock still unchanged. Looking forward to that 5th hour.

I brought 15 gallons of water inside the house to cool - it's over 90 degrees in my garage where the salt mixing containers are.

 

[Dudester]

5 hrs and I can't find a single red bug. I'm not convinced that what I was seeing on that mille frag were red bugs at all. I tried to get a macro shot of that frag, but it's in a location that I haven't been able to photograph, ever. I found the peppermint shrimp, laying relatively motionless behind the aquascape. I have no way of getting it out, and I'm afraid it won't survive the treatment. Maybe the water change I'm doing in 1 hour will revive it - will have to see.

Polyp extension is unchanged - maybe this indicates that my problems are multifactorial and not just related to red bugs. I didn't expect to see any change in the color of my acros yet, but I was hoping that the most heavily affected (infested) corals would respond to the Interceptor with better PE.

 

[jnarowe]

Give it some time. Corals that are under stress need time to heal.

 

[Dudester]

Time, I've got. I mentioned that I expected better PE because, in the experience of many others who have eradicated red bugs with Interceptor, that's what they observed, improved PE after a few hours of the treatment. But I'm in no hurry, it'll happen eventually.

So after the 6th hour I did the water change, cranked up the skimmer and put about a cup of new carbon in the sump. Almost every SPS got good and slimey after the water change. I tested S.G. and it's spot on at 1.026, and the pH is 8.25. I'll test chemistries tomorrow and make corrections as needed.

The fish and corals are otherwise all well. The peppermint shrimp is alive at this moment, but I don't have high hopes that it will survive the night as it remains nearly motionless behind the aquascape. Incindentally, it didn't move when I fed the tank, definitely a bad sign. I really wish I could have gotten it out of the tank - not sure why I'm so hung up on it, but it really bothers me that I've probably killed it.

So I'll do a 25% water change mid week and I'll probably change the carbon at that time. Seven days and 14 days from today I'll repeat the exact process, then return the crabs back to the display. Not so bad, eh?

 

[jnarowe]

Not too bad, and your reporting is good for the rest of us.

 

[Dudester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8297336#post8297336 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Not too bad, and your reporting is good for the rest of us.

Glad you appreciate it - that's what this forum is all about.


As predicted, the peppermint carcass was found and removed from the display today. Unexpectedly, however, when I checked on the rescue tank this morning, I found the large emerald crab on its back and motionless. I did what anyone would do ... I poked it with a stick ... and it moved. It couldn't even right itself, so I pushed it up against the LR to help it, but it frankly didn't have any strength. I had to leave for work and when I get home, I'm fairly certain I'll be flushing it. The other emerald crab and all of the hermits were alive and well. It's interesting to me that it was only exposed to Interceptor for 1 hour, but the toxicity had already been too much to overcome, even though that crab was quite active late last night.


Here are some before and after pics of my corals. These were taken 3 and 1/2 hours into the Interceptor treatment. I only photographed the ones that seemed to be the most heavily infested with the red bugs.

Here's the a. austera before Interceptor

and here it is 3.5 hrs after Interceptor. No red bugs.

Here's the acro hemprichii before Interceptor

and here it is after Interceptor. No red bugs.

 

[Dudester]

During the 40% water change, the display was drained nearly 2/3 of the way down. I immediately noticed the strong, sweet smell of SPS. What a great scent - they should bottle that! I thought the tank looked kinda cool drained like that, and it also gave me an opportunity to see the corals out of the water, so I snapped some pics. I didn't take any side views because the glass looked a little "filmy" and I didn't want to take the time to clean it before taking pics. Maybe I'll do this next week when I repeat the treatment.

This morning the plate coral was polyped out like crazy, and since I had my camera with me I snapped a shot.

 

[melev]

Nice! Congrats on the dead bugs!

 

[Dudester]

The congratulations may have come too soon ...


I finally got caught up on reading all of the AEFW threads out there, and became very worried, especially since I just treated for red bugs. In addition, I didn't experience the same improvement in acro PE after the treatment that others have had. My friend informed me this morning that he has AEFW in his tank, so as soon as I got home I removed the ORA rose mille from my tank and tested it. This is the frag that hasn't laid down a base, and it's had no PE and poor coloration for several weeks. Basically this is the worst looking coral in my tank.

I submersed the frag (it's just under 1 and 1/4" long) in tank water in a white bowl. Here's what it looked like. The purple is epoxy that was holding it onto the aquascape, and you can see a cluster of eggs right beside it.

I then added 5 drops of Lugol's solution and the water turned a brown-yellow color.

After a couple of minutes I agitated the water with a turkey baster and this is what came off of the coral. AEFWs for sure.

This blows! :mad2: I carefully inspected all of the other acros in the tank and none of them appear as bad as the mille pictured above, although several have extremely poor to no PE (like the acro. hemprichii photo that I posted today after the Interceptor treatment). I'm definitely tossing this frag, but I'm not sure if I should just go ahead and treat all of the acros or wait it out? I wasn't able to see any "bite marks" or tissue loss on any of the photos I recently posted.


As an aside (much less important at this point), I checked on the rescue tank and the large emerald crab that I thought was going to die is alive and kicking. Maybe it just likes to sleep supine? I did a 20% water change on the tank, just in case.

 

[Dudester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8301108#post8301108 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dudester
I'm not sure if I should just go ahead and treat all of the acros or wait it out? I wasn't able to see any "bite marks" or tissue loss on any of the photos I recently posted.

Never mind, no need to answer that question. I just looked ultra carefully at one of my fading acro frags, and I actually saw one of the little ba$tards crawling on a tip I was going to frag off and test. No need to test it now, I know they're there, and they're probably everywhere for that matter. So I'm going to have to remove ALL of my acros and treat them in a quarantine tank for at least a month. I don't know how I'm going to get all of the acro tissue off of my aquascape without toppling it? I'll probably have to remove all of the rocks, cut off the corals, and then re-build the tank from the substrate up. Did I mention that this blows?

 

[melev]

Before you over-react, try to be methodical about this one. That is what I'm doing. In the SPS forum, I have a thread over there and I've been treating individual corals instead of ripping my reef to pieces. I've used Betadine successfully, but it causes the coral to lose color unfortunately. I'm using something called Fluke Tabs now. This is what they look like:

There is an AEFW page on my site that goes into some of what I've done, not including the Fluke procedure. It is in the PESTS section (left column) of my Reef Log page.

 

[Dudester]

Thanks, Marc, I've been reading your AEFW thread, as well as the info on your website . Actually I considered doing just what you mentioned - only removing the affected coral and treating it as you are doing. But once I understood what to look for, and after looking at several of my acros, it became evident that I was able to recognize infections on many of them (but not all). I guess this is one time when it's beneficial to have frags as opposed to colonies, since it wouldn't be too hard to remove them. I don't feel like I'm over-reacting, I just want to perform the treatment once and for all, and I don't want to take the chance that the flatworms could be lying dormant in a coral that I feel is unaffected at this point, only to return later and potentially draw out this treatment for an indefinite time period.

My friend who has the flatworms is setting up a large hospital tank to treat his acros, and he invited me to put my frags in there as well. We plan on doing this in about a week, as it will take that long to establish the setup. We are going to use the Fluke-Tabs that melev displayed. Now I just need to find out where to get them - maybe from my vet that got me the Interceptor.

 

[techreef]

Wow, sorry to read this Dudester. Those AEFW have phenomenal camoflauge! Doing all your frags in a large hospital tank w/ a friend sounds like a great solution to what seems like a huge problem. Good luck. And thanks for posting all about your red bug and FW efforts. I'm learning alot from your experiences.

 

[melev]

I asked my LFS to order the Fluke Tabs in.

I didn't mean to imply you were going to overreact, but someone else did imho and lost every piece in his effort to erradicate the pest.

Here's the biggest hurdle - you need to set up a reef-like quarantine tank with all the great lighting, good varied flow, constant pH, Ca, & Alk, as well as good temperature control. Basically, you need another reef tank with awesome stability. You are about to medicate the corals, which often times don't even like being moved a few inches in your tank, and we are uprooting them into an entirely new system. I believe that too many big changes equals higher losses, unfortunately. So if your friend and you can come up with a very reliable setup, odds are you'll be successful. Aim for very stable parameters, and hopefully you'll be rewarded.

I'm treating an A. secale right now in Fluke for a 60 minute dip. It is faded, but had 50% polyp extension on one side. I figured the AEFW have taken residence on the coral.

And I found a few redbugs on that coral I treated two months ago. As expected.

 

[Dudester]

It's too bad I have to be one of the educators regarding the treatment of pests and parasites, but I have no one to blame other than myself. When I think back to the beginning of my involvement in this hobby, I can't recall making many mistakes regarding my research, preparation, build, or maintenance of my reef. Sure there were a few mishaps (like when I added 80 gallons-worth of salt to my 30 gallon tank), but those were easily overcome. But I did make one HUGE mistake, and everyone should heed this advice.

Dip and/or quarantine everything before placing it into your tank.

I had read this time and time again, but I chose to only quarantine fish (not corals), and I only dipped corals that I felt were obtained from "suspicious" sources. This was a careless practice and has come back to bite me.

There's a bright side to every story. In my case, my softies and LPS all are doing great. And I now have more evidence as to why my acros are so pale. According to what I've read, I can expect at least a 20% loss of my corals during the AEFW treatment, but that's OK as long as the ones I return to my reef are healthy. My plans for adding the Elos product and changing salt brands will have to wait until I have disease-free corals. But that's what this hobby is all about - patience, right?

 

[Dudester]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305357#post8305357 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Here's the biggest hurdle - you need to set up a reef-like quarantine tank with all the great lighting, good varied flow, constant pH, Ca, & Alk, as well as good temperature control. Basically, you need another reef tank with awesome stability. You are about to medicate the corals, which often times don't even like being moved a few inches in your tank, and we are uprooting them into an entirely new system. I believe that too many big changes equals higher losses, unfortunately. So if your friend and you can come up with a very reliable setup, odds are you'll be successful. Aim for very stable parameters, and hopefully you'll be rewarded.

That's exactly what we have in mind. He has a vacant 55g tank with MH lighting, skimmer, and plenty of pumps for circulation. I haven't asked him the specifics of the setup, but I'm certain he's accounted for temperature control and all of the necessary requirements for water stability. His reef is absolutely gorgeous and his husbandry is impeccable, so I feel very confident that the treatment will proceed favorably.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305357#post8305357 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I'm treating an A. secale right now in Fluke for a 60 minute dip. It is faded, but had 50% polyp extension on one side. I figured the AEFW have taken residence on the coral.

Aren't you worried that some surviving AEFW's will jump ship in between treatments and infect your other acros? I completely understand why you've chosen to treat this way, as it would be a herculean task to tear down your reef and treat all of your colonies.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305357#post8305357 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
And I found a few redbugs on that coral I treated two months ago. As expected.

The whole retaionship between red bugs and AEFW is very interesting. I guess another Interceptor dip is in store for you too, eh?

 

[melev]

Yes, I'll dip a couple of corals at once, both of which have had redbugs in the past.

If the AEFW keep hiking around the tank, I'll have to treat all Acropora one day. I've been told a couple of fish can eat them, but I don't really see it working in bushy corals where fish can't gain access. I'm hoping some predator will be discovered that I can set loose in my reef one day.

 

[Dudester]

Ah yes, the natural predator as the "majic bullet." Once that fish is discovered, I don't care what the minimum size tank is that's recommended, I'm getting 3 of them (said facetiously).

 

[melev]

:lol: