STN on SPS? Can't stop. What gives?

[Tenshoa]

Two weeks ago, I went on vacation for a week. I hired a LFS to check on and feed my tank every other day while I was gone. However, they did not bother to check my params at all and when I returned home, the ALK was at 6.1. The line coming from the dosing pump had curled up inside the container and was no longer dosing ALK.

I noticed that the tips of about 50% of my acros were burnt and that algae was forming on them. I slowly increase the PH back to it's normal parameters over a 3 day period. The tank is now stable the way it was before vacation. However, the corals did not seem to be bouncing back. So I then trimmed off the burnt tips hoping to see new tissue forming. Unfortunately, the tips seem to be forming algae again. All parameters have remained stable for over a week now.

To give you an idea of the tank stability prior to this occurrence, my parameters NEVER fluctuated. Not even a little bit. The following is my typical regimen and tank characteristics:

Water Parameters:
KH – 8.2-8.4 (Salifert)
Ca – 490-500ppm (Salifert)
Mag – 1480-1500ppm (Salifert)
PH – 8.1-8.3 depending on time of day (Controller Probe)
NO3 – 2 ppm (Salifert)
PO4 – undetectable (Salifert)
Temp – 78-79 degrees

Top off Reservoir:
Total Capacity: 14.8 Gallons
Kalk Mix: 1 Tbs per 1 gallon of water, 1/3 cup of white vinegar per 5 gallons (already added)
Kalk Brand: Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime

Media:
TLF 150 Reactor – 7 Tbs of RowaPhos
Nextreef Reactor – Activated Carbon

Dosing Setup:
Channel 1: Doses 1500ml per 24 hours of Kalk water from ATO Reservoir
Channel 2: Doses 26ml per 24 hours of Alkalinity
Channel 3: Doses 26ml per 24 hours of Calcium
ATO: Smart ATO for top off

Note: Channel 1 Doses kalk water from same reservoir that Smart ATO tops off from. Smart ATO tops off remainder. This is to mitigate PH Spikes during dosing and top off.

Lighting: Reefbreeder LED fixture, programmed to ramp up and down over a 14 hour period.

Controller:
ReefKeeper Lite
Set to turn ATO off if PH exceeds 8.5 and turn back on if PH drops below 8.4

Refugium: Contains Chaeto algae and Live Rock

Trace Elements:
Potassium: ~400-420ppm
Iron: .15ppm
Iodine: .06ppm

Feeding Regime:
Mixture of frozen Mysis and Herbivore food once per day. May mix with Vitamins.
Aquavitro Fuel, add 3 capfuls twice per week.
Corals are spot fed once per week.

This regimen has not changed and has been working perfectly up until the point where I went on vacation. All current parameters reflect the above numbers and have been this way for over a week.

It may be important to note that I have added a Maxpec Gyre about 3-4 weeks ago and it is being run at 70%. I'm not sure if that level of flow is helping or harming the current situation.

Other than that, I am at a loss as to how to stop this from happening further. Pulling the corals out and dipping them isn't a very viable option due the amount, location, and or size. Not to mention, many have encrusted onto rock work that has been pinned.

Does it normally take this long, with stable parameters, for corals to bounce back from such an event?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

I included some photos for visualization. However, these photos reflect the tank BEFORE the occurrence. I have lost quite a bit of color since.

<a href="http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/tenshoa/media/Tank%20100814/DSC_0363_zps2562f844.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b518/tenshoa/Tank%20100814/DSC_0363_zps2562f844.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0363_zps2562f844.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/tenshoa/media/IMG_7759_zpsc5cfb277.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b518/tenshoa/IMG_7759_zpsc5cfb277.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_7759_zpsc5cfb277.jpg"/></a>

 

[lboud39]

I have no valuable input for you only a question.


What was the response from the LFS for poor service?

 

[Ink]

did you notice some new algae on live rocks?

my hypothesis is nutrients are too high and carbon source from aquavitro fuel caused ammonia spike. In that case, quit fuel and drastically reduce any food source in your tank. In a couple of week the problem should stop. Administer bacteria in good amount.

Luca

 

[Tenshoa]

I have no valuable input for you only a question.


What was the response from the LFS for poor service?

The owner asked if I could come in and meet with her and the girl who took care of the tank tomorrow. So the jury is still out.

Am I wrong for expecting them to check parameters at least once during the week I was gone?

 

[Tenshoa]

did you notice some new algae on live rocks?

No.

my hypothesis is nutrients are too high and carbon source from aquavitro fuel caused ammonia spike. In that case, quit fuel and drastically reduce any food source in your tank. In a couple of week the problem should stop. Administer bacteria in good amount.

Luca

I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at and how you came to that conclusion. Please clarify.

To my knowledge, Aquavitro fuel does not provide a carbon source. It provides aminos and trace elements. And organic carbon only provides a medium for increasing bacteria, primarily to feed off of nutrients. I've never heard of bacteria causing an ammonia spike since they are the solution to decreasing them. But then you go on to state to add bacteria, which is essentially what organic carbon is for.

Feedings have been substantially decreased to about half. Despite the fact that I have and am still showing no measurable PO4 on a Salifert and 2ppm on NO3.

 

[saltyair]

I have gone through the same type of issue. For me it was was due to using redcyano rx about 9-10 months ago. I have been able to turn things around since adding bacteria (Wiest)
I only took a week to start seeing growth again

 

[Ink]

Tenshoa,
You need to acquire some more information about the various type of bacteria, they are not all the same, have different needs and function into our tank.
Eterotrophic bacteria are the ones that need organic carbon. They transform organic matter and produce ammonia and grow extremely quickly.
Autotrophic bacteria use CO2 as carbon source and transform ammonia into nitrite (nitrosomonas) and nitrite into nitrate (nitrobacter), they grow very slowly and are the ones You add with commercial products.
Acquavitro fuel contains carbohydrate (aquavitro says that), so (I think) organic carbon source.
Ammonia is algae preferred source of nitrogen. They can also use nitrate, but ammonia is preferred.

Luca

 

[Ink]

You may have added too much carbon sources and organic nutrients. Eterotrophic bacteria could have been stimulated to process them, causing ammonia spike and leading to algae grow. Adding bacteria, means adding autotrophic bacteria: they will process ammonia more quickly, helping to solve the problem.

Luca

 

[Tenshoa]

You may have added too much carbon sources and organic nutrients. Eterotrophic bacteria could have been stimulated to process them, causing ammonia spike and leading to algae grow. Adding bacteria, means adding autotrophic bacteria: they will process ammonia more quickly, helping to solve the problem.

Luca

Thanks for the info. But I've already stated there there is no algae growth and there have been no ammonia, nitrates, or phosphates. The above parameters have been consistent, without variation, for over a year. (With the exception of the Alk drop during my trip). Nothing has changed in my regimen. In fact, during my week away, no Fuel was even added.

No offense. I think you're theory is sort of reaching, and I'm not really up for gambling consistency for something that based off of a guess. Stopping the addition of fuel is one thing. But I doubt that is going to solve my issue. Any further changes from the normal routine would scare me without a solid basis for your analysis. There is nothing in my parameters that would indicate that bacteria population is the issue.

 

[Ink]

Maybe it's not your case. My first question was if You had algae and You disagreed. So probably your issue is another one.

Info I gave You about bacteria I think are very precious and You should keep them in mind. The fact You didn't detect ammonia doesn't mean there isn't enough ammonia to harm SPS that could be detected with home testing.

Heterotrophic bacteria can also be a big source of ammonia in aquaria. For example, uneaten fish food that is broken down by bacterial action will usually result in ammonia being released to the water.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/#6

http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ista/I... - Understanding Trophic Systems Ebeling.pdf

Nitrogen, in the form of ammonium (NH4+) is the most important source of inorganic nitrogen for primary producers (plants, algae, zooxanthellae; Swanson and Hoegh-Guldberg, 1998.)

Luca

 

[Ink]

Your problem maybe not bacterial population, it is more probably nutrients variation.

Luca

 

[Tenshoa]

Your problem maybe not bacterial population, it is more probably nutrients variation.

Luca

And I definitely appreciate the info on bacteria. Something for me to look into in the future. I love reading and researching reef science and tend to be like a sponge.

However, I just don't see this being likely. Especially since the likely cause of the issue is the Alk drop. I've been consulting with some pretty knowledgeable reef sources the past couple of days and they all seem to have the same consensus. Since acropora are extremely sensitive to alkalinity swings, particularly in a tank that is as stable as mine and as meticulous as I am, that this is almost definitely the cause and that the problems associated with it will take time to dissipate. Likely another week or two at least before I start noticing a turnaround.

I am too consistent and thorough for me to consider something out of the blue when my regimen has not changed for quite some time. It's not as if it isn't a mature tank. I've had most of it's contents for 3+ years.

I guess in my original post, I was more curious as to whether or not it was normal to experience STN for this length of time following the incident described or if there was anything additional that could have been hindering repair.

 

[Reefer07]

Has the STN stopped at least?
And just a random question because I saw some issues similar to this with the answer. By any chance were your lights left like the whole time or was lighting cycle messed up. Theres a current thread about a member here going on vacation and the caretaker hit wrong button on the controller instead of feed cycle it kept lights on for a week. 24/7.
Just a thought......

Also, now I'm just spitting out random stuff I'm sure you already looked into but did a doser fail?
Whens the last time you checked to see what the daily uptake of calc and alk were? Your tank looks very full and healthy, thus demanding a lot of these elements everyday. Perhaps dose needs to be increased?
Lastly, was the caretaker supposed to mix/dose/replenish any chemicals or additives at all? If so when you meet with her you find out EXACTLY what she did if you haven't already.

(sorry for the broken sentences/misspelled words, if any. On the phone!)

 

[fisher4d]

I had a similar situation and what worked for me was turning off my GFO for a week or so. Corals do need some phosphate. While your #'s may be ideal when corals are healthy, they might not be when they are injured.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

I find as more time goes by, if I just leave the phosphate be from .05 to .15, corals are much happier. The other week I cleaned out abunch of stuff(skimmer/reactor/sand), phosphate went from .22 to .05 overnight, a lakers frag I have started STN.

Instead of worrying about it, I tried a hunch. The only thing I did, was I added additional Nutricell food daily, 3-5 days it was healed, phosphates held .07 to .14 through that time period.(I test nitrate/phos/alk every 24 hours during some observations)

After seeing the Red Sea coral program suggest ~.10 phosphates iirc, and then the Triton system suggest ~.08, I figured I would stop trying to achieve the legendary 24/7 zero phosphates. My tanks doing much better now.

 

[Mylesweaver]

Turn your lights back two hours at least. 12 hours is about the most

 

[mikedoyle]

When I stopped dosing fuel for about two weeks I end up having a lot of burnt acro tips. Wasn't sure if this was the reason but as soon as I restarted dosing everything went back to normal. I had no other changes during this time.

 

[Dapg8gt]

In my experience you haven't even really begun the effects of alkalinity drop/spike. It takes a long time to recover in some cases. People ( including myself) have had effects lasting several weeks to months to fully recover and begin normal growth. One thing to watch for is your consumption,if they are stressed the coral will not need as much alk/cal and you can end up over shooting it and cause more problems.

I'd say just keep things the way they have been when it was going good and wait it out. Don't change anything unless it has to be changed.. Try trimming the corals that are receeding and hurry up and wait. Once you notice increased color and growth you should be back to normal, until then just monitor your consumption and leave everything the way it was making sure your normal routine is followed.. Stability will be your best friend.

 

[ghostman]

I'm with Dapg8gt on this one. I had my alk dip while I was on vacation, and it took weeks for the STN to stop. I would cut/remove colonies, only to have other colonies start to STN. After a few weeks of water changes, and constant parameters did the STN stop. Hopefully you will have it stop soon and not lose any corals to it. Stressed corals will not use Alk/Ca as much so watch your doing regime, and perhaps adjust until growth begins again.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Out of curiosity Tenshoa, how often do you broadcast feed your tank with "coral" foods? (or target feed each?)