I agree, a puffer would be a bad idea in a Biocube, let alone if it dies, that would bomb the tank.
Stocking List for a Biocube 29
- Thread starter fender4string
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I agree, a puffer would be a bad idea in a Biocube, let alone if it dies, that would bomb the tank.
fender4string
New member
Toby's don't put out the mess larger puffers do. Smaller fish smaller bioload. At least that's my understanding.
I'm also pretty sure that the "messiness" of puffers tends to come from what they're fed. I.e. if you feed them mussels/clams on the half shell, they're going to eat maybe half of it and just tear the crap out of the rest of it for your CUC and filtration to take care of. I feed 90% NLS pellets, clean and very healthy, so in terms of messy I don't think (and haven't experienced) Toby to be a mess fish or to be a detriment to bioload. Granted 85 gallons is a considerably different environment than a 30 gal cube so my observations are probably less than useful in that context. We'll have to see.
At any rate he'll be the first to go in. I tend to take things slowly so it'd be a while (probably months) before I added another fish. That'll give me some time to monitor levels and also reestablish bacterial colonies.
I was recommended this fish on Nano Reefs , a Scarlet Pinstripe Wrasse, Pseudocheilinus evanidus. Apparently they do ok in smaller tanks and are very passive. Any info/experience with these guys? I can't seem to find much about them.
Here's a Live Aquaria link to it: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+1152&pcatid=1152
I'm also pretty sure that the "messiness" of puffers tends to come from what they're fed. I.e. if you feed them mussels/clams on the half shell, they're going to eat maybe half of it and just tear the crap out of the rest of it for your CUC and filtration to take care of. I feed 90% NLS pellets, clean and very healthy, so in terms of messy I don't think (and haven't experienced) Toby to be a mess fish or to be a detriment to bioload. Granted 85 gallons is a considerably different environment than a 30 gal cube so my observations are probably less than useful in that context. We'll have to see.
At any rate he'll be the first to go in. I tend to take things slowly so it'd be a while (probably months) before I added another fish. That'll give me some time to monitor levels and also reestablish bacterial colonies.
I was recommended this fish on Nano Reefs , a Scarlet Pinstripe Wrasse, Pseudocheilinus evanidus. Apparently they do ok in smaller tanks and are very passive. Any info/experience with these guys? I can't seem to find much about them.
Here's a Live Aquaria link to it: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1378+1152&pcatid=1152
Well Im gonna be honest. And your not going to like my response....I already know that.
But first, that puffer isnt going to be happy in the Biocube. They should have 30 gallons minimum. And they are known to have aggression. A Biocube 29 only holds about 25 gallons of water...maybe.
And same goes for the wrasse.
If it were me, I would either get a 40 gallon tank at least, or reconsider the fish list.
But first, that puffer isnt going to be happy in the Biocube. They should have 30 gallons minimum. And they are known to have aggression. A Biocube 29 only holds about 25 gallons of water...maybe.
And same goes for the wrasse.
If it were me, I would either get a 40 gallon tank at least, or reconsider the fish list.
fender4string
New member
That's fine man I appreciate the honesty. He's in a 20 gallon right now, a tank that I typically use for QT. He's been in it for about 3 weeks now and seems to be doing ok. This whole biocube thing is going be on sort of a trial basis as I will make other plans if things start to go south for the puffer.
That being said I disagree with your take on tobies being aggressive fish. The only thing I have ever heard about tobies is that they will sometimes nip the fins of other fish (mine did this once and the behavior never reoccurred). Even their defenses are passive, with their toxic mucous coating and their ability to "puff" up as a means to deter predators. With this fish in particular, I've never seen him become aggressive with any other fish, including some that were smaller than him. That combined with the fact that he is not an active swimmer leads me to believe that he has a good chance of living well in the smaller tank.
Now could that change in this different environment? It's possible but I won't know until I try it.
I also tend to take clowntriggerfs' hands on opinion as being a good indicator of the possibility of success with my puffers introduction into the cube. He's given me a lot of good advice in the past (I'm not saying you're not giving good advice or that he's more knowledgeable than you, just that his advice hasn't yet steered me wrong).
Please don't take this as being combative as that's not where I'm coming from at all. I'm just offering some counter points. Just a friendly debate!
The wrasse I'm really leaning away from as no one has given them a shining recommendation as a good addition to a cube but that's why I'm asking. To make sure if the idea is good or bad. The flasher wrasse is definitely out but it doesn't hurt to explore other possibilities, especially as I was recommended the pinstripe by another aquarist.
If not a wrasse it'll probably be a Royal Gramma as I'm pretty sure I've seen people keep those successfully in nano tank.
That being said I disagree with your take on tobies being aggressive fish. The only thing I have ever heard about tobies is that they will sometimes nip the fins of other fish (mine did this once and the behavior never reoccurred). Even their defenses are passive, with their toxic mucous coating and their ability to "puff" up as a means to deter predators. With this fish in particular, I've never seen him become aggressive with any other fish, including some that were smaller than him. That combined with the fact that he is not an active swimmer leads me to believe that he has a good chance of living well in the smaller tank.
Now could that change in this different environment? It's possible but I won't know until I try it.
I also tend to take clowntriggerfs' hands on opinion as being a good indicator of the possibility of success with my puffers introduction into the cube. He's given me a lot of good advice in the past (I'm not saying you're not giving good advice or that he's more knowledgeable than you, just that his advice hasn't yet steered me wrong).
Please don't take this as being combative as that's not where I'm coming from at all. I'm just offering some counter points. Just a friendly debate!
The wrasse I'm really leaning away from as no one has given them a shining recommendation as a good addition to a cube but that's why I'm asking. To make sure if the idea is good or bad. The flasher wrasse is definitely out but it doesn't hurt to explore other possibilities, especially as I was recommended the pinstripe by another aquarist.
If not a wrasse it'll probably be a Royal Gramma as I'm pretty sure I've seen people keep those successfully in nano tank.
The biggest reason I see the Toby for possibly getting aggressive towards other tankmates is if he feels he has no room. Thats when it would happen if it does happen.
Now for wrasses, keep in mind they are very active swimmers. With that in mind, anything other than a pygmy wrasse wouldnt do so good in a biocube. One of my biggest defenses for this is if you watch wrasses in nature, their natural swimming motions you can see they dart through the water and this is why alot of people experience wrasses as carpet surfers.
Now for wrasses, keep in mind they are very active swimmers. With that in mind, anything other than a pygmy wrasse wouldnt do so good in a biocube. One of my biggest defenses for this is if you watch wrasses in nature, their natural swimming motions you can see they dart through the water and this is why alot of people experience wrasses as carpet surfers.
fender4string
New member
I could see the crowding leading to aggression too. I'm just really hoping it doesn't.
So do wrasses just get going so fast they have to basically choose to hit the glass or catch some air? I always assumed they were skittish fish. I haven't had a lot of experience with them. I had a christmas wrasse for a short time who was killed when my picasso trigger chased her out of the tank. QT for a month and about 1 hour of life in the DT. I literally left the tank for about 5 minutes and she must have jumped the second I turned my back.
So do wrasses just get going so fast they have to basically choose to hit the glass or catch some air? I always assumed they were skittish fish. I haven't had a lot of experience with them. I had a christmas wrasse for a short time who was killed when my picasso trigger chased her out of the tank. QT for a month and about 1 hour of life in the DT. I literally left the tank for about 5 minutes and she must have jumped the second I turned my back.
They can be skittish but once they get use to people coming up to the tank it's different....or become comfortable in their setting so to speak.
But mine actually isnt a jumper. He just stays in the tank and doesnt get too startled. I got lucky. But all he cares about is food
But mine actually isnt a jumper. He just stays in the tank and doesnt get too startled. I got lucky. But all he cares about is food
clowntriggerfis
New member
A toby will not nuke your tank nor will any other puffer it is boxfish that do that.
As far as tobies being agressive I have never heard of anyone having a agressive C. solandri even when kept in pairs or trios. IMO/IME I it really depends on the species for agression. Leopard tobies seem to be the most agressive and I belive they are the ones that give tobies bad names although I have heard of some other species being agressive but this seems to be pretty uncommon and it seems they have this behavior from the start and it is not something developed. FWIW my toby is the most peaceful fish I have ever owned.
rssjsb
New member
This has been my experience as well. My c. solandri (which is what Fender has) is a fantastic fish. He can't be kept with shrimp or snails, but is very peaceful toward other fish. I really don't know where the "nuke the tank" thing is coming from.
As for wrasses, the pin-streak wrasse is similar to the possum wrasse. They do well in smaller tanks because, unlike flashers or other wrasses, they mostly stay close to the rocks. They could jump, like most fish, but they don't need a lot of swimming room.
fender4string
New member
Thanks for the recommendations cas and Frxnchie. I've also thought that the goby/shrimp relationship is incredibly fascinating but I'd be afraid that my toby would eat the shrimp. If it wasn't for the obligation I already have to him I think that I would probably get a goby/shrimp pair.
I also hadn't heard about puffers causing poisoning when they die. I wasn't sure if I had missed that or not so it's good to have some confirmation that that's not an issue.
So you say the scarlet pin-stripe could work rssjsb? Maybe I'll add that back to the list of considerations then. I had this debate regarding one of my prior fish (a convict tang in an 85 gal). I was advised against it and also told it would be fine. He ended up being fine in the tank (at least for the 3 years I had him).
I suppose that worst case scenario, if I try the wrasse, is that I could always find him a bigger better home if the need arose.
I also hadn't heard about puffers causing poisoning when they die. I wasn't sure if I had missed that or not so it's good to have some confirmation that that's not an issue.
So you say the scarlet pin-stripe could work rssjsb? Maybe I'll add that back to the list of considerations then. I had this debate regarding one of my prior fish (a convict tang in an 85 gal). I was advised against it and also told it would be fine. He ended up being fine in the tank (at least for the 3 years I had him).
I suppose that worst case scenario, if I try the wrasse, is that I could always find him a bigger better home if the need arose.
