Strange Fish Deaths, Need Help Soon!

[MrVulpinus]

I take care of a FOWLR tank at my school, and we have had major fish loss recently. Our test results all came back at zero ( ammonia, nitrites etc...) except for nitrate which was about 60 ppm. Previously, when I took over the care for the tank the nitrates were off the scale (literally). Brought them back down, but now it is as though there is a sniper in the tank. The fish usually die over a week or so, very slow and painful to watch. They breathe heavily, refuse food, and then "beat themselves up" against rocks. I cannot see any kind of film, or small dots on their bodies. I treated for flukes in a freshwater bath or seven minutes, but the fish never improved. We have lost a male bird wrasse, four beautiful tangs, one after another, and then a foxface. We still have one bird wrasse, a koran angel, two clowns, a kaudern cardinal, a potter's angel, and a squareback anthias. Could it just be the fish secummbing to the stress of living in a tank tht was very poorly maintained before I started taking care of it (about two years), or is something else wrong?

My question is what seems to be killing these fish, and can I do anything to stop it. Any help is greatly appreciated, there has been a lot of labor put into this tank, and this has been absolutely devastating.

P.S. over the past six months we lost 13 fish (including these recent ones), and have replaced much of the aquarium's equipment due to inadiquacies throughout the system. (The first seven fish seem to have died for unrelated reasons).

 

[RegalAngel]

They breathe heavily, refuse food, and then "beat themselves up" against rocks. I cannot see any kind of film, or small dots on their bodies. I treated for flukes in a freshwater bath or seven minutes, but the fish never improved.

My question is what seems to be killing these fish, and can I do anything to stop it.

This sounds like a parasite that is irritating the fish....could be flukes and I would use Prazipro or could be Ich.

Depending upon Inverts in the tank, I would use Quinine Sulfate for the Ich available here: aka Crypto Pro

http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/

This is for fish only and will kill algae!

Perhaps a description of the tanks, ie size, filtration system, additives added, etc. would be helpful.

 

[MrVulpinus]

More Info

More Info

Thanks for the info,
the tank is a 125 with a hang on overflow box running to a ~5 gallon wet dry flilter(i don't know if these were ever cleaned in the 3 years the tank has been saltwater). this runs into a 15 gallon sump with a 3 week old vertex 100 protein skimmer (this replaced a inadaquate coralife 125). We have a phosban 150 using NPX biopellets( this has been in for about 3 months), powered by a maxi-jet 900. We also have aquanetics IL-25 UV sterilizer with a 5 month old coralife 25 watt bulb. The circulation pump is a Gen-x 40. We have two powerheads. one is the old model hydor koralia 850 gph, the other is an old model hydor koralia 1200 gph. We have two single tube 36" t-8 flourescents. We use two Marineland 300 watt heaters. For an auto top off we use a 5 gallon paint bucket(never contained paint) and a lifeguard 4000. We have a homemade float switch using pvc pipe and a alarm system magnetic switch floating on extruded foam as the float.

One last question, could the gravel be leaching something into the water, as i am unsure if it was used in the tank when it was freshwater?

 

[Sonicblast12]

There is such a thing as too much improvement too quickly. How did you bring the nitrates down?

 

[MrVulpinus]

We first got the Phosban unit w/ the NPX biopellets, but this still did not bring the nitrates down much, so we added the new protein skimmer. Even with these changes the Nitrates consistently hang around 60.

 

[MrVulpinus]

The one thing that does not make sense as it being a disease are that each of the fish died one by one. My LFS also said it might be some sort of parasite, but they were baffeled that it only hit one fish at a time, and that the Koran Angel was still alive, they said they would have thought that the Koran would be far more susecptable to the flukes.

I have treated the tank for ich about 3.5 months ago using rid-ich, and have also used seachem's Metronidazole, my LFS said that the Metronidazole was the best solution, as it was the least likely to cause overdose issues. We used it in the mysis shrimp with focus. We used the Metronidazole for about 2 weeks, but again it had no effect, potentially b/c the infected fish weren't eating very much.

 

[RegalAngel]

I have treated the tank for ich about 3.5 months ago using rid-ich, and have also used seachem's Metronidazole, my LFS said that the Metronidazole was the best solution, as it was the least likely to cause overdose issues. We used it in the mysis shrimp with focus. We used the Metronidazole for about 2 weeks, but again it had no effect, potentially b/c the infected fish weren't eating very much.

I would suspect Ich if that is the case.....

Try the Quinine Sulfate reference above.....no inverts in tank or corals...fish only. Won't affect bio filtration, but will kill Ich on the fish within 5 days.

 

[elkinsda]

Just a shot in the dark but is the tank near a window or anything else that may be cleaned by a custodian/janitor? I say this cause i work in a school and our fish died from a custodian cleaning a window near the tank with windex.

 

[MrVulpinus]

Yes, the tank is near a window, but it has a canopy.

My LFS said that cleaning the tank glass itself w/ windex was OK, and that canopy would protect fish.

I do not know what the janitors use for any kind of cleaning, but I will look into that, but if the canopy is not protection then that could be cause too.

Also wondered what exactly quinine sulfate is. I have done lot of ich research in the past, but I have never heard of it.
Thanks again for all the ideas.

 

[SushiGirl]

Is the HOB protected?

 

[MrVulpinus]

I sorry if this sounds stupid, but what exactly do you mean by HOB.

I only know it as a "Hang-on-Back" filter, which we don't have.

We currently have an in sump vertex in-100 skimmer.

The only thing hanging on the back is the overflow box, and this is not protected by the canopy

 

[SushiGirl]

Sorry, I meant the hang on overflow.
Also, if cleaners are used where the skimmer can suck up any overspray into the air intake, that could also cause issues.

 

[MrVulpinus]

No, the hang on overflow is open to the air (though it is behind the aquarium), and the skimmer is underneath the stand, and not exposed to open air, except for the back of the stand, which is open, and faces the wall.

I suppose there is somewhat of a possibility of overspray, but only very very little, the realquestion is how much windex would be required to cause this kind of fish loss.

Another observtion I had was that the Foxface got sick only two days after a water change, and according to my best guesses, the other fish got sick soon after a water change.

However, in the past I have never had any issue with water changes prior, and have not changed the method (except for the fact that we purchased a new bucket for transporting the salt water), or the source of the water for the changes. i get the water from my LFS, which they use an RO/DI system, and then apply instant ocean salt. Unless the store changed something, or those new buckets (also from my LFS) have something to do with it, that really doesn't mke sense.

 

[Chris27]

At this point, it would be a good idea to set up a QT for the remaining fish, and leave the tank fallow for a few weeks. Most times, a fallow period cures most problems with unidentified fish deaths.....

 

[MrVulpinus]

QT Help

QT Help

I was afraid that it might come to setting up a QT.

I totally agree that for now that is probably the best solution.

What exactly is required for a QT tank for the fish that we have
(Royal Gramma, Bird Wrasse, Anthias, Potters Angel, 2 clowns, Koran Angel, Kaudern's Cardinal)

What size tank would be neccessary, and what equipment would be needed for a QT for this kind of treatment?

Thanks Again