sudden jump in nitrates.

[mos90]

i have recently had a sudden jump in nitrate in my 4 month old 350g mainly sps reef tank.

i have just about won a medium sized hair algae battle and even with heavy skimming i think the nutrients from the die off along with some cheato dying off found its way into the water.

water parameters from last month.
cal-400
alk-8.5
phos-.01
nitrate-0
sg 1.026
temp 78.5-79.5
mag-1350

it could also be possible that the hair algae was absorbing all my nitrate giving me a false 0.

now all the same but nitrate is 3-5 pmm.

im also using 2 hog1 algae scrubbers. and about 4 cups of brs gfo and carbon. changed bi-weekly.

i do 25 gallon weekly water changes with i/o and dose prodibio bio-clean every 2 weeks.

i had good luck with the bio-clean on my frag tank but not noticing much on this tank yet. could be because of a large bio load in new tank.

im thinking 5 ppm is the max i should let nitrate get too. if i cant get it under control i would consider bio-pellets again. they do work but mostly for nitrate only.

 

[epicurus84]

maybe the problem was the water change (if you did do some). new bucket of salt, bad RO/DI water. Dirty bin.

I would measure the newly made water and check that.

 

[mos90]

i can check it but my waterchanges are not large enough to cause a jump like that and i am positive that my ro/di water is good.

i know my phosphate is 0 in mixed water.

 

[sirreal63]

I would not worry about 3-5 on the nitrates but I wouldn't let them go much higher. You can always dose a little vinegar to help drop the nitrates.

 

[mos90]

would vinegar be a better choice then vodka or bio-pellets?

 

[sirreal63]

I find it more forgiving and easier to dose than vodka and the pellets do work once you get the flow and quantity correct. They all work but for me the vinegar is easier to deal with. I have been carbon dosing since 2005 and have used vodka, sugar, vinegar and pellets, vodka and pellets both seem to feed cyano more than vinegar did.

 

[mos90]

i was reading the article the randy wrote up on dosing vinegar. he recommends a starting point of 15ml per 100g. so i would start with roughly 50ml per day.

could i use my bubble magus doser to dose this amount of undiluted vinegar spread out over 24 hours?

 

[sirreal63]

You could, that would be a good place to start.

 

[mos90]

will vinegar cause any issue with tubing used for dosing?

 

[sirreal63]

No, none that I have ever heard, if it concerns you use a silicone tubing.

 

[mos90]

would it be possible to make a vinegar/kalk mix for dosing with my bubble magus just to help with ph.

my dosing container is 1500ml's. so lets say 750ml of saturated kalk and 750ml of vinegar. then lets say you want to dose 50ml of vinegar a day you could dose 100ml of kalk/vin solution.

 

[sirreal63]

Yes, and it is how I dose vinegar lately, in my kalk mix.

 

[mos90]

so 50/50 mix is ok. will the vinegar separate?

 

[sirreal63]

I don't know if it separates or to what degree it will, I only add about 1/8 cup of vinegar to 5 gallons of water and roughly 15 tsp of kalk. The dose of vinegar will depend on how you much kalk mix you drip and what the normal vinegar dose is, over a 24 hour period. I drip over a 24 hour period with a peristaltic pump to match my daily evap. My 5 gallon mix lasts about 3 days and I only do the vinegar a few times a month just to keep the nitrates between 3-5. It took a little trial and error to get it nailed down.

 

[oceanlife83]

I have had a similar problem. I run 0 ammonia 0 nitrite 0 phosphate and I use only ro/di water. Salinity is 1.025 temp 78. But i keep showing around 20 ppm nitrates. I had a buddy test it and it show about the same. But I have put nitrogen sponge in the filter and still have nitrates. Done water changes and all..

 

[tmz]

Mos 90,
This is in response to your request for my participation on this thread..

Vinegar and vodka are about the same . Vinegar is acetic acid,aka ethanoic acid. Vodka oxidizes to acetic acid in water. Neither contributes monomers( sugars) like polymers ( carbohydrates including pellets,potatoes, rice, et alia ) do as they breakdown to monomers and then on to ethanol and acetic acid and on to acetate. Sugar is a problem for some of my corals( browning recession and in some cases death even vry small doses)) and a least one study links excess glucose to coral mortality .

Dosing kalk( calcium hydroxide) with or without vinegar will add alkalinity and calcium. The pH raising effect comes from the hydroxide joining with CO2 to form carbonate alkalinity.
Vinegar( acetic acid) drops the PH initially by adding H+ allowing more calcium hydroxide to stay in solution but further along in the process the acetic acid adds back oxide as acetate is formed leaving the only pH reducing effect from CO2 produced by bacteria that breakdown the acetate. So , in the long run both vodka and vinegar will depress pH about the same but vodka will not drop it precipitously making it suitable for bolus dosing but not for increasing the amounts of calcium hydroxide in solution. Either can be added to lime water as the high ph lime water keeps bacteria at bay. Vinegar needs to be dosed slowly during photosynthetic periods to avoid precipitous ph drops.

48ml of vinegar(5% acetic acid type) per gallon of freshwater will enables 36% more calcium hydroxide to stay in solution ,ie, 2.72 tsps per gallon , and the limewater ph will remain around 12.54 with that extra calcium hydroxide adn teh vinegar . Beyond that more vinegar will depress the lime water pH. At some point lower pH
will dissolve some of the precipitated impurities and take the ph into a comfort zone for bacteria to begin consuming the acetic acid in the weakened lime water
.In vinegar at 5% acetic acid the pH is low enough to stop bacteria; in fully saturated lime water the ph is high enough to stop bacterial growth. In the middle they wax. So, I don't think a 50/ 50 mix is useful.
48ml of vinegar per gallon in lime water along with 2.72 tsps of calcium hydroxide used as top off will provide a relatively high initial dose of organic carbon from acetic acid . I'd start with one quarter of that, ie,12 ml per gallon along with 2.09 tsps per gallon of calcium hydroxide. and work my way up slowly while observing the tank. prsonally, I dose vinegar and vodka but independent of the limewater I use. It's simpler for me to bolus dose and I'm happy with the results.

I have no idea what's in the prodibio stuff you are dosing but if it has ammino acids that could be a source of nitrogen. I personally wouldn't expect much out of tiny algae turf scrubbers.

For those interested in more information on organic carbon dosing , this thread may be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=organic+carbon+d

 

[mos90]

if i do decide to dose vinegar i will dose straight. the only reason i planned to dose with kalk was avoid depressing ph. so if a 50/50 mix is not useful i wont go that route.

after doing some research i think starting at 50ml is too high. i would start closer to 20ml and spread it our over 10 separate doses. 2 ml a dose most likey will not effect ph.

prodibio bio clean is supposed to be a combo of bacteria , aminos and trace elements. it claims to reduce n and p.

http://www.prodibio.com/maintenance-aquarium-biological-clean-water-bioclean-care-treat

the next question is, should i dose vinegar?

 

[tmz]

I'd probably stop the pordibio dosing and wait on the vinegar giving the algae a chance first; 4 to 5ppm NO3 isn't a big worry. The thread noted above can help you make a decision.

 

[mos90]

After reading you thread I will monitor nitrate for now and see if can keep it under 5 ppm. If not I will do some sort of carbon dosing. Either vinegar or pellets

With some of the new all on one pellet reactors it's fairly easy to get the flow right.

 

[mos90]

after a few days of tossing it around i decided to start a low dose if vinegar. 20ml per day is a very conservative amount. i will most likely ramp up to 50 ml over the next 4 weeks.

the main reason for dosing to lower nitrate back down to under 1. ive noticed sps more brown then i care for with nitrate at 4-5. but it could be a combo of reduced photo period and higher nutrients. i am slowly ramping the photo period back up.