Sump plumbing

[Neoz]

I spoke with a few members at DrBronx place about my sump hookup. Well it is now time to hook everything up. I finished painting the room, had a few guys over and placed the tank on the stand.

So I have a external pump already hooked into the sump and most of the plumbing already done. Most of the plumbing was already done when I purchased it. So if I use the external pump all I need is the flex hose hookup like Adam has to connect my Bulkheads. I believe Adam stated the system is a little quieter with those on there instead of regular tubing.

Of course there are a few questions . There always is with me.

1) Can you buy that flex hose like whats on Adams tank locally? If so were at. I need 2 different sizes.

2) Will the tank setup be quieter with the pump in the sump?

Also over the weekend I picked up a NIB Mag 18 and a 1yr old mag 9.5 got them both for $90 bucks total. Thought that was too good a deal to pass up. So should I just run one of those instead of the external pump? If so which one? The Mag 18?

I would have to change a lot of my plumbing to do that but I just don't want to have to redo it later after I'm up running.

So lets take a poll.... If you were in my situation would you go internal pump or external?

 

[nwrogers]

I am guessing you are referring to white flexible tubing? I have never seen Adams plumbing work but I am guessing it is spa-flex. It comes in 1 inch and 1.5 inch at Lowe's. If it was me I would just use the Mag 18 as an external pump. Mag pumps are work horses and even though they are not recommended for external use they can be used externally. I have been using mag 12 and 9.5 pumps externally for years without any problems. In fact they run much quieter than any of the external pumps I have used because they don't have a loud cooling fan. I would chose that over running the mag drive internal to the sump. If you have the money an external pump would be nice but you have the mag you might as well try it out. That's my vote...

 

[Neoz]

Sorry I wasn't clearer Nate. I currently have an external pump on my tank now. It came with the setup. I believe its a Iwaki? Probably spelled that wrong. I'll check the exact model number tomorrow. Just thought maybe the internal was quieter then the external. But what do I know. I haven't even fired the pumps up yet

Thanks for the info on the flex pipe. I'll look into that tomorrow after I decide what way to go with my sump hookup.

 

[drbronx]

The Iwaki IMO would be serious overkill for your tank since your sump is under your tank and you won't be fighting head pressure. The Iwaki utilizes considerable energy to run. I would suggest using the mag18 ei9ther internally or externally as Nate suggests which will give you 10x tank volume turnover, which is more than sufficient.

 

[nwrogers]

I have used Iwaki pumps in that past. They are amazing long lasting very low maintenance pumps. However they are very loud. If you are concerned about noise you will not want that Iwaki pump under your tank IMO

 

[frankandmaura]

For the record, these guys are the guys you want to talk to Neoz...but I have an opinion too...

I have a question...are you using this pump as just a return or as a means for water flow for your system? The reason I ask is this, if it is just a return, I feel the Mag 18 is way too much flow and it is going to be more trouble than it is worth (unless it is used external).

On my system, I have either a Mag 7 or a Mag 9.5 "internal" - can't remember which one it is. Whichever it is, it is pretty darn quiet and gets the job done. It is more than enough turnover for what it is supposed to do, in fact I have a ball valve restricting the flow. With the valve wide open, I was getting micro bubbles in the tank. If you are not aware what they are, they are just what they sound like, tiny bubbles that almost make the water look cloudy. You don't want that. I personally don't think you need that much flow as a return. The problem is, if you have a skimmer in your sump, something like that Mag 18 if used in your sump is going to pull so much water that the bubbles from your skimmer aren't going to dissepate fast enough and they are going to go right back in the tank. I have baffels and everything and I can't run my return wide open.

So...I know that was a bit of a ramble but...if you are going to use the Mag 18 or the Iwaki, I would use them external (noise will be an issue). Personally, I would use the Mag 9.5 in the sump and dial it back a bit.

Of course, if you are using this pump as a means of water flow (and not a return) then...everything I just said mean's nothing.

 

[Neoz]

Guys thanks for the replies so far. Looks like the external pump is coming off. I'll have to plumb that hole shut in the sump, unless I use one of the others externally.


Frank what do you mean for water flow? I have 4 powerheads in the tank for my flow if that is what you mean? This will strictly be for in the sump? Maybe I'm not grasping the whole plumbing thing Which isn't surprising...

 

[frankandmaura]

Sorry if I wasn't really clear...

Ok, if anyone wants to chime in and maybe provide some pics of a "closed loop system", please do. Some systems use an external pump for flow (instead of powerheads). In those cases, they put multiple holes in the back of the tank (some returns and some outputs) and that external pump creates the flow in the tank rather than using powerheads. Some think it is cleaner and more efficient than using powerheads. It is a nice way to do it, if you have the means to drill the tank and don't want "ugly" powerheads in your tank. That said, it sounds like you already have the powerheads...and that is a perfectly fine way of handling flow.

So...IMO, if you are using this pump simply as a return...I would not oversize it (for all the reasons I stated in my previous note). Again...if someone else has a different take...please chime in.

 

[Neoz]

Ok I understand it now. I just read up on a closed loop. Yeah I can't go that route. Tank is all set and getting ready for the plumbing this weekend.

So I guess I'll go with the Mag 9.5 in the sump. If the flow isn't good enough I'll have the Mag 18 on stand by.

 

[reefscape15]

Looking forward to some pics once you start filling the tank up. 180 gal is such a great size! It should give you so many options

 

[Neoz]

Question for anyone. I want to make sure I have plently of shut off valves on my plumbing. Would it be overkill to have a shutoff on all 4 bulkheads right out of the bottom of the tank? Meaning the 2 overflows and the 2 returns? I have a overflow in each corner of my 180 tank.

This way if I want to do anything with my sump I'll be covered. Is it really neccasary on the smaller return line?

 

[Piazzon12]

I don't have them... not sure why you would... the sump should hold the volume of possible backflow from the overflows/return siphon. Unions are more important than shut offs in my opinion. the only reason for shut-offs are to restrict flow on a return pump

 

[Neoz]

Thanks for the help Adam. I made a quick diagram of my sump. My question is would the return pump go in the first area or in the second area with the skimmer.

I think it would go in the first area, But if my memory serves me right I have seen a few return pumps in the same area/bay as the skimmer.

The skimmer only fits in the middle bay. The return pump used to be hooked up all the way to the lower left. I have now plugged that off. All the way to the right top is the incoming water. That is all plumbed in and ready to go. I will be using Unions as Adam suggested along with spa flex hoses. Getting ready to to make a run now to get plumbing parts...

 

[Piazzon12]

you probably want your return pump in the far left compartment to have the least amount of microbubbles

 

[Neoz]

Thanks adam. Thats what i thought as well. Purchased all my plumbing and will be installing that starting Monday. I'll be sure to post pictures when its done.