Super Duper 600 Gallon+ Build Thread

[i2ik]

This is amazing Keez! Can't wait to see more of it! I would agree with those recommending you to run a calcium reactor and a Kalk reactor for top off. You can then used the DOS for some other traces that you would like to have.

 

[Osteoclast]

Keez a couple of quick points on my tank which may be applicable to you.

I have the Aquaeuro 1 HP on my system which is about 600 gallons and it functions well. I keep a close watch on temps in the summer and winter. One our my home's HVAC controls my study, the fish room, and adjacent bed room. I use this HVAC as primary control with the chiller as an adjunctive unit. My chiller is plumbed into the system and run below the main floor in the basement. This was primarily due to noise. Tank temps are fairly stable. Chillers need space and good ventilation. Some plumb them outside. My basement is perfect for my system.

I think a calcium reactor is a good idea for your system--my tank is still growing out so I have not yet needed to set mine up but I have a Geo 818 unit in reserve. I currently dose my calcium and alkalinity by using Kalk in my auto top off. The auto top off reservoir is about 80 gallons and controlled with a tunze unit which I really like, this has met demand well for the past couple of years. I dose minimal two part as well mainly as back up.

My fish room has a tiled floor in case of spills and we installed a center floor drain. The tile extend up 3 feet on the walls. We set it up to be converted into a bathroom with shower in case subsequent owners of our home did not want the tank and it's complicated set up, fish room, etc. Hard to believe--right? But I did have a neighbor with a large system that could not sell his home due to his monstrous fish tank. At least a realtor will be able to point out how to convert the rooms back to something more traditional--Heaven forbid!

I have 6 Radions over my tank suspended from a platform connected to a chandelier lift. We have several of these lifts in the house and I installed one in the fish room to allow ease of access to the tank as well as height adjustment functionality of the lighting fixtures. My Radions are 16 inches above the water line and Par at the sandbed is 100-125 in my 46" deep tank. I have the Radions at 60% intensity. The tank is in wall so a lift might not work for you as the motor unit is typically installed in an attic.

I have but one Apex. I agree with Dave on the auto water changer--Reef Genesis, it is a great unit. I have one but am not currently using it. For RODI water I purchased a large two tank Siemens unit which is DI. A local water purification company here help set this up for me and at least one LFS was using the same unit. The nice thing is that I can make TDS 0 water fast and it has come in handy with large volume water needs. My DI can give me 200 gallons in about 10-15 minutes.

I did install an inverter-converter battery backup for brief power outages using the typical marine battery set up. It works well for up to about 8-12 hours and runs my sump and skimmer mainly for oxygenation. A gas generator is better and many large tank owners have those as well. I have not been able to convince the "boss" on that (yet)!

Good luck with your system.

 

[keez]

For your concern about multiple Apexs and having redundancy, I think you have over thought this.

Get your Primary Apex, and if you want a second one for your QT setup. Then register on Reeftronics.net. Reeftronics is a free server that will monitor your Apex. If your Apex goes offline because of a power failure or internet failure or apex failure, the Reeftronics server will notify you that your Apex is no longer online.

To Use 2 Apex units as a redundancy and protection against one failing, means that you have to have doubles of every piece of your critical equipment - Multiple chillers, Multiple heaters, multiple return pumps - all capable of keeping your total system volume stable.

Hey Dave, first let me say thanks very much for taking the time to contribute to my setup, it's very appreciated. I think you are 100% correct re apex. My intention was really to use the backup apex as a notification system, it seems that reeftronics can totally solve that need. Thanks for the heads up on that! I'm going to keep the 3rd apex handy in case there is a failure of the either of the active ones however.

The DOS pumps for a water change solution is not the right call. Definitely research the Reef Genesis system.

12 DOS pumps -- That's 24 channels of Dosing.... What do you think you are going to be dosing?

If you went with the Triton Method, which is the about the most complete line of Trace Elements for dosing available you would use 4 channels for the base elements and maybe another 4-6 channels for your needed traces, and maybe an additional channel for Acro power.

There are a couple of people with DOS units running frozen feeder systems. But even then you don't need 12 DOS units.

If you were planning on Doubling your DOS units for redundancy, I think you are over complicating the system.

So this gets a little tricky with regards to dosing. Here is the breakdown.

TOP OFF

Fish QT1(FQT1)
Fish QT2(FQT2)
Coral QT(CQT)
Display Tank(DT)

WATER CHANGE

New Salt Water(NSW) -> DT
DT -> Old Salt Water(OSW)/Drain

OSW ->FQT1
FQT1 -> DRAIN

OSW ->FQT2
FQT2 -> DRAIN

OSW ->CQT
CQT -> DRAIN

DOSING

ALK->DT
CAL->DT
MAG->DT
VODKA->DT(maybe)
EXTRA->DT

ALK->CQT
CAL->CQT
MAG->CQT
VODKA->CQT(maybe)
EXTRA->CQT

FEEDING
FEED1->DT
FEED2->DT

This totals 24 channels or 12 DOS units. I'm actually quite concerned about going with DOS for water changes now, you are the second person that has recommended strongly to not use DOS for water changes. Could you give me a little more detail on why they don't work well?

If you dream of having a tank packed with stony corals from one end to the other, then you should consider a Calcium Reactor and a Kalkwasser Reactor for your topoff. These 2 reactors can handle a huge load with a lot less maintenance and effort on your part. Your apex can monitor both Reactors and will let you know right away if there is an issue with either. And the calcium reactor with a pH probe connected to your Apex is really simple to dial in and keep running efficiently.

Point well taken, I'm sorta down the road of dosing already since I've bought/paid for the dosers. From what I understand, it should be ok until I start getting very serious about stacking the tank with sps.

I have 8 Radions over an 8 ft tank. I think I could possible add 2 more. Your 10' tank with 9 might not be enough. You might want to consider adding a couple of more.

In your rendering photos all the Radions look suspended from the ceiling, but then there was a photo that you might have purchased a bunch of the Radion Arm mounts for the Radions. If the Radions are going to be mounted on the arms along either edge of the tank, I think you would find them getting in the way for maintenance. Suspending them from the ceiling would be better.

Given the 36" depth of the tank, design your suspended light rack so that it can be raised or lowered. You don't need anything super crazy, the actual Radions aren't that much weight. But to penetrate the 36" depth you might want them closer to the water, and then need to move them up, because to reach into such a big tank you are going to have to get most of your upper torso over the top of the tank.

Wow, ok I will definitely keep that in mind. I'm excited to see what kind of PAR readings i will see throughout the tank. As for the tank mounts, those are for the tanks in the fish room not the DT. I'm going to be using hanging kits from Ecotech for the DT. You bring up a great point with the adjustable height, do you have any recommendations for how I would go about building that or is there a semi-finished product that can be used for this application?
Thanks again for all your comments and feedback Dave.

 

[keez]

Your renderings look amazing. Off to a real impressive start. I noticed the sump on the floor as well and wondered if you had plans to lift it like mentioned above, bending over for extended periods of time will get real tiring, really quickly.

Thanks! lol ya, I'm worried about this too. I'm just reworking the wall that it sits on and I'm going to try to elevate the sump, even if it's just a little bit.

 

[keez]

Keez a couple of quick points on my tank which may be applicable to you.

I have the Aquaeuro 1 HP on my system which is about 600 gallons and it functions well. I keep a close watch on temps in the summer and winter. One our my home's HVAC controls my study, the fish room, and adjacent bed room. I use this HVAC as primary control with the chiller as an adjunctive unit. My chiller is plumbed into the system and run below the main floor in the basement. This was primarily due to noise. Tank temps are fairly stable. Chillers need space and good ventilation. Some plumb them outside. My basement is perfect for my system.

I think a calcium reactor is a good idea for your system--my tank is still growing out so I have not yet needed to set mine up but I have a Geo 818 unit in reserve. I currently dose my calcium and alkalinity by using Kalk in my auto top off. The auto top off reservoir is about 80 gallons and controlled with a tunze unit which I really like, this has met demand well for the past couple of years. I dose minimal two part as well mainly as back up.

My fish room has a tiled floor in case of spills and we installed a center floor drain. The tile extend up 3 feet on the walls. We set it up to be converted into a bathroom with shower in case subsequent owners of our home did not want the tank and it's complicated set up, fish room, etc. Hard to believe--right? But I did have a neighbor with a large system that could not sell his home due to his monstrous fish tank. At least a realtor will be able to point out how to convert the rooms back to something more traditional--Heaven forbid!

I have 6 Radions over my tank suspended from a platform connected to a chandelier lift. We have several of these lifts in the house and I installed one in the fish room to allow ease of access to the tank as well as height adjustment functionality of the lighting fixtures. My Radions are 16 inches above the water line and Par at the sandbed is 100-125 in my 46" deep tank. I have the Radions at 60% intensity. The tank is in wall so a lift might not work for you as the motor unit is typically installed in an attic.

I have but one Apex. I agree with Dave on the auto water changer--Reef Genesis, it is a great unit. I have one but am not currently using it. For RODI water I purchased a large two tank Siemens unit which is DI. A local water purification company here help set this up for me and at least one LFS was using the same unit. The nice thing is that I can make TDS 0 water fast and it has come in handy with large volume water needs. My DI can give me 200 gallons in about 10-15 minutes.

I did install an inverter-converter battery backup for brief power outages using the typical marine battery set up. It works well for up to about 8-12 hours and runs my sump and skimmer mainly for oxygenation. A gas generator is better and many large tank owners have those as well. I have not been able to convince the "boss" on that (yet)!

Good luck with your system.

Thanks very much for sharing your setup and experiences. Do you have a link to your tank, some pics etc, would love to see it as well. You just gave me some things to think about!

I'm still unsure of where I'm gonna find some room for my chiller, I was thinking of putting it under the tank and venting it straight outside. Given that I live in a cold climate, i would almost never expect the chiller to be on so maybe the noise is a one off and not so much of an issue. The only time it would be used is when my HVAC would break and it would be >75-80 degrees outside(which rarely happens in Montreal). What do u think?

 

[dave.m]

I honestly can't see you ever needing a chiller. Unless you have some equipment that generates an inordinate amount of heat like metal halide lighting there is little likelihood of your tank ever getting hotter than the temperature inside your house. 80° F is hardly exorbitant for a reef tank.

Dave.M

 

[keez]

I honestly can't see you ever needing a chiller. Unless you have some equipment that generates an inordinate amount of heat like metal halide lighting there is little likelihood of your tank ever getting hotter than the temperature inside your house. 80° F is hardly exorbitant for a reef tank.

Dave.M

I agree that the chances are quite low. One issue that makes me nervous is that the room where the tank is located has a western facing wall of windows. floor to ceiling, 30ft ceilings approx. When my AC breaks, which surprisingly happens quite often... it has reached 90 in that room before. It is very rare because we need a heat wave and AC breakdown at the same time but I rather be safe than sorry.

 

[dave.m]

I guess if you can afford 30' ceilings you can afford a just-in-case chiller. :thumbsup:

Dave.M

 

[SS_Sean]

Your metal end caps on the tank can be made simply. It would need to be cut from patterns using a plasma cutter, and then welded together. Once the patterns are welded together, they would simply need to be cleaned up and powder coated. You would never even see the welds because of the cleanup. VERY simple stuff.

 

[keez]

There is something I overlooked, something big! I didn't even consider this but the DOS pumps have to be located above all reservoirs else u risk siphoning... So I've had to totally redesign the wall. I suppose I should take this chance to also switch to Genesis for the main tank water change? I've been trying to understand why everyone is warning against using DOS for water changes and to use Genesis. Am I correct to assume that the reason for this is that the DOS has too slow of a drain/fill rate to be useful on such a large system? This could and probably would create a pita for ATO? It would be greatly appreciated if someone could clarify the pros/cons of DOS vs Genesis for water changes.

thanks a lot!

Matt

 

[BMMMW]

If still interested in those panels, just find a company with a water jet and or laser cutting machine. I have both, but I am in Florida.

Awesome build!

 

[Dubeyan]

Just a really nice post! Good luck for the rest!

 

[stephane]

Hey Matt was to make you a surprise but you came to fast the picture was taken so were they are

 

[Ricardo18]

There is something I overlooked, something big! I didn't even consider this but the DOS pumps have to be located above all reservoirs else u risk siphoning... So I've had to totally redesign the wall. I suppose I should take this chance to also switch to Genesis for the main tank water change? I've been trying to understand why everyone is warning against using DOS for water changes and to use Genesis. Am I correct to assume that the reason for this is that the DOS has too slow of a drain/fill rate to be useful on such a large system? This could and probably would create a pita for ATO? It would be greatly appreciated if someone could clarify the pros/cons of DOS vs Genesis for water changes.

thanks a lot!

Matt

I have a 600+ system, and looked at both.The Dos could keep up but it would have to run a very long time and will require (more) calibration between each motor.I settled on Genesis Renew and Storm and they work perfectly.I am dumping my "waste" into my QT tanks to keep the biology consistent between all tanks.

 

[stephane]

Look like it is Xmass again santa seem to left you some stuff again see you soon

[/IMG]

 

[keez]

Holy **** that's a lot of stuff. Thanks Stephane, will definitely be coming by tomorrow! lol

 

[keez]

I have a 600+ system, and looked at both.The Dos could keep up but it would have to run a very long time and will require (more) calibration between each motor.I settled on Genesis Renew and Storm and they work perfectly.I am dumping my "waste" into my QT tanks to keep the biology consistent between all tanks.

Ah ok I think I understand. Well I think you're right then, I'm gonna switch to genesis for the main tank but keep DOS for the support tank water changes. Does that make sense?

thanks in advance
Matt

 

[druzzelle]

drooling about that equipment!!!

 

[Ricardo18]

Ah ok I think I understand. Well I think you're right then, I'm gonna switch to genesis for the main tank but keep DOS for the support tank water changes. Does that make sense?

thanks in advance
Matt

If you mean Quarantine tanks as your "support tanks", QT tanks will not need constant water changes like your DT, because you might be using copper (so you do not want to flush that away on a daily basis) and because there is no live rock or sand in the QT tanks, they will be "cleaner" anyway.Also, if you drip your DT tank water into the QT tanks, by way of the Genesis discharge, that is accomplishing the daily water change. (Not to be done when you are treating your QT tanks with supplements/medicine/stuff)

 

[Ricardo18]

Each of my 2 QT tanks have sumps. Each sump is drilled with a hole where I want the sump water level to maintain.The hole drains out to my floor drain.So when Genesis drops some DT water into the QT, (at the top of the tank)the sump level rises accordingly and drops "old" water out to the floor drain.This is the daily water change you can use wether there is stock in your QT tank or not. This will keep the biology working in the QT tanks all the time.
Now, this is not super efficient, so by all means do a regular 20% change with fresh salt water once in a while...just not every day.(maybe once a month or so...depending on your readings)