Sustaining good plankton levels.

[MARINECRITTERS]

Hi

With a normal airlift you will by no means be able to raise water more than a few cm over the water level.
Just don't take me wrong, I personally think that you are bothering too much about the effect of pumps on the plankton in your tank. Why do I think so?
Most of the plankton that will be produced in your system will be larvae from worms, snails etc.. And you will have naupliae and adults from copepods, amphipods and isopods. Eventually mysis but I know of now closed system where it was possible to sustain an constant population of tropical mysis. Furthermore, copepods, isopods and amphipods in our tanks are almost 100% benthic organisms. They are not swimming around. An exception are the naupliae of the different copepods. I know of now system where it was possible to maintain a population of pelagic plankton over time.
Most of the plankton mentioned ist very small and will pass most pumps without majour impact. An exception are for sure needle wheel pumps of skimmers. They certainly kill most of the planktonic organisms in our tank.
In case you introduce large amounts of phytoplankton and zooplankton, there might be an effect of the pumps. But again, phyto and zooplankton introduced to a closed system doe's normally not build sustainable populations.
I only have so called "traumatic" pumps in my system and I have a substantial production of plankton in my DSB and almost everywhere in my tank. The glass is covered with copepods and isopods. And I do even have a needle wheel skimmer.
If you really want to ensure that plankton is not shredded by pumps, I see only one solution that is to place any kind of refugium above the tank level. With airlift, you'll not going to be happy. Choosing a return pump, I would go for a very powerful pump that can be reduced to the flow required to reduce the velocity of water puped through.
A friend of mine started an experiment 2 years ago. A small tank was devided in a azoo part, algae refugium and plankton production part all the same level. The plankton production part was connected to the azoo by an overflow and an airlift. There was a substantial production of plankton in the tank but that was by far not enough to feed the two gorgoinians in the azoo part.

As said, just my opinion

Cheers Marco

I thought the same thing, but I may as well attempt to create and airlift, it will not only be safer to some of the animals ( even if it is very few ), but it will also increase oxygenation and cool the water.
Right now I am thinking about scratching the whole system and starting with something smaller and easier to work with.
There is a 40 gallon cube with a corner overflow on my local craigslist!

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

Minor setback, I started my phytoplankton culture a few days ago and the neighbours cat decided it would be fun to knock it over...
I have to order a new culture, which last time, took over three months to arrive at my house.

 

[MarcoBO]

Hi
When it comes to phytoplankton, just my version. I'm cultivating phycopure reef blend with a specific plancton fertilizer. 8 days 50ml phycopure in 1.5 l seawater ant thats it. I looked at it under a microscope and there is still a quite big diversity. So i do not have to bother about having a backup and the mix of algae is better than nannochloropsis salina. Phycopure copepod blend should even work better, since the algae in it are not very competitive

 

[dingodan87]

Love this thread..hope i can get it going again. I'm planning an nps system using some of the techniques discussed here and wanted some input. I want to go skimmer less, with the key components of my filtration being an algae turf scrubber and a bio pellet reactor, with plumbed in but only for emergency use gfo reactor and nitrate filter. i want a slow cycling refugium above the DT to aid in zooplankton production. Since there is no skimmer i will have a large chamber in the sump full of air stones fed from outside air for gas exchange. i will be using a refrigerated food dosing system but would like to promote as much natural food sources as possible. my general goal is to have zero mechanical filtration and very high chemical and biological filtration. the DT will have a shallow sand bed full of cerith and nassarius snail to constantly stir the substrate keeping as much detritus free floating as possible. hope for some feedback...

 

[noy]

...I want to go skimmer less, with the key components of my filtration being an algae turf scrubber and a bio pellet reactor, with plumbed in but only for emergency use gfo reactor and nitrate filter. i want a slow cycling refugium above the DT to aid in zooplankton production. Since there is no skimmer i will have a large chamber in the sump full of air stones fed from outside air for gas exchange. i will be using a refrigerated food dosing system but would like to promote as much natural food sources as possible. my general goal is to have zero mechanical filtration and very high chemical and biological filtration. the DT will have a shallow sand bed full of cerith and nassarius snail to constantly stir the substrate keeping as much detritus free floating as possible. hope for some feedback...

Good idea reviving this thread!

Not sure what type of NPS you are raising but I find bio-pellets promote too much cyano and this is deadly for gorgonians (they get covered very quickly).

I have a plumbed in ATS but I just don't find it particularly effective. You may have a different result.

Just FYI I have 2 systems - a 110 display with all my dendros/sun corals in it and another system with gorgonians and seahorses. The dendros/suns are fairly easy - I target feed and the filtration is your typical reef (gfo/skimmer/carbon dosing).

I run an insane amount of GFO on the gorgonian tank - this is the primary source of my filtration - choking PO4 so there isn't any algae growth in the tank. I also do bi-weekly 30% water changes. I really don't monitor nitrates. I'm working on a LaCl reactor at the moment.

I would be very interested in MarcoBO's results - its been almost a year. Some of the gorgonians he has in the pics (the red sea fan gorgonian sp. for example) are almost impossible to keep (imo) - so I am interested to see what the results are.

I have been experimenting with continuous flow and so far (imo) I am just not too sure you can build up the concentrations required to ensure all your livestock (especially gorgs) gets fed (unless you are dumping in a bottle a day). I go with what I call a saturate and skim approach. I have a mechanical system (Apex AFS) that dumps various dry coral foods in 6 times a day. Twice a day i dump a large concentration of frozen rotifers, plankton, oyster feast into the tank. The flow in the tank during this feeding cycle is increased a bit (extra pump) and I let the food flow around for about 2 hours and then the return/skimmer kicks in to skim out the unconsumed food. Frozen/Dry coral foods break down fairly quickly (just put some reefroids in a small container in tank water and leave it out for 8 hours - it will smell horrible and full of ammonia). This is of course my experience and obvious others have a different view.

I also import live rotifers from my culture and dump in phyto every other day or so.

Here is video of some of the plankton life at night in my gorg tank

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[dingodan87]

thanks for the reply! i dont want to keep gorgonians but will be keeping soft nps corals like chili coral and carnation, also scallops, sponges, sea squirts, and feather dusters. do these animals not require constant food?

 

[dingodan87]

also what about culturing live rotifers and feeding that instead of frozen? i suppose they would soon die anyways?

 

[noy]

thanks for the reply! i dont want to keep gorgonians but will be keeping soft nps corals like chili coral and carnation, also scallops, sponges, sea squirts, and feather dusters. do these animals not require constant food?

They do require constant food but as I know it sponges/squirts/scallops/feather dusters feed by filter feeding whereas the soft NPS corals feed using polyp capture. The question and challenge is building a sufficient concentration of food so the food actually hits the polyps. This may be tough in a system where the food is not directed at the corals.

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[noy]

also what about culturing live rotifers and feeding that instead of frozen? i suppose they would soon die anyways?

The rotifers don't necessary die in the tank - I replenish them in the gorg tank to see if I can sustain some level of live rotifers in the tank. I suspect live rotifers probably carry more nutrients than frozen. I do both just to cover my bases.

 

[dingodan87]

i just dont understand the concept of skimming out the very organics you are trying to feed your corals/ filter feeders. i wonder why you had no success with ats i hear alot of good things about them but i have no personal experience

 

[vmvm60]

Just my 2c...
There is a difference between NPS coral food and organics. NPS need very fine particulate food(POM - particulate organics matter), but not DOM(dissolved organics matter). POM is the algae/rotifer/synthetic food, while DOM are the organic molecules resulted from decomposition of food/feces. DOM is usually associated with the yellowing of tank water, and is not desired in an NPS setup, as it is considered that its "scent" prevents the NPS in detecting the real particulate food, so polyps remain closed. Compared to photosynthetic soft corals(xenia, toadstool, etc), the NPS seem to be particularly sensitive to these yellow compounds in a negative way. DOM reduction is usually approached by Activated carbon(or other chemical filtration like purigen/polyfilter)/water changes/skimming/ozone. I have also noticed good results with skimming + bacterial enzymes like ZeoZym(KZ) or ReefActif(TropicMarin).

Basically any organic carbon dosing(Zeovit/BioPellets/Vodka) MUST be paired with strong skimming for exporting the bacterial mass generated in the process. Otherwise, the bacteria that have assimilated the NO3/PO4 (and who eventually die over time) will release the nutrients back into the tank.
As an undesired side effect, skimming will indeed export some of the POM food we added, but I think this is unavoidable. The only solution everybody seems to use is adding more food to compensate.

ATS is a great tool. However, even considering an optimally implemented ATS(flow, light, algae attachment surface) the turf algae metabolism is considered slower than the bacteria one. So, in the context of huge nutrient load of a NPS system, in order to provide an alternative to the huge bacterial surface of a Zeo reactor or BioPellet reactor, the algae(ATS) would need a considerable surface, usually much larger than it is usually available for in-sump ATS. Very often, even if the ATS seems to do well(solid constant algae growth), their contribution to the overall nutrient reduction is minor compared to carbon dosing/skimming.

Of course in the context of a lower nutrient tank load or less sensitive corals(xenia, etc), ATS may do perfectly fine.

 

[dingodan87]

thanks for the info! i'd like to create the most effective filtration system possible as i will be keeping photosynthetic soft corals as well, thus providing the light for nuisance algae to take over given the opportunity.

 

[dingodan87]

looking into lanthanum chloride...any success with your reactor?

 

[noy]

looking into lanthanum chloride...any success with your reactor?

I have the design down - have to build it. I'll start a thread on this.

 

[vmvm60]

For alternative ways of phosphate reduction, you may also check this:
http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=229645

or this:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2410056&highlight=all+in+one+np+bio+pellets

 

[herring_fish]

Sorry I'm dictating this from my phone . I have used an ATS for the better part of 20 years on my 130 gallon tank. I have been a filter feeder / non-photosynthetic reefer all that time. I engaged in extremely heavy feeding, never had trouble with nutrients. This dump bucket style ATS is 48 inches by 6 inches so it is fairly good size but very efficient and productive. An ATS does have to be properly sized and efficiently designed