Symptoms displayed, advice on action

[Mishri]

Well.. well.. As I expected, Petco bought fish appear sick. Actually, bought 2 clowns and a little powder blue tang (Get the tang police). clowns look and act fine they have been in the store for probably 2 or 3 weeks. The Tang arrived in store Tuesday, I bought on Friday (30% off) and is definitely flashing(especially rubbing it's gills) and hanging next to koralia nano power head. No physical signs. All fish are eating very well, mysis, flake food, the tang picks at the rocks and a bit at nori I put in, I basically have to leave it in there for hours though because it's so skittish... and wont eat much... it is little yet though and skinny.

So.. could be flukes, velvet, ich. I picked up cupramine but no place in town has a copper test kit, overnighting it but wont get here till tuesday. Think I should do a combo, prazipro and copper? Or should I wait for identification and treat accordingly? -I'd hate to treat copper and have the tang stop eating, it looks thin enough as it is... could get it bulked up a bit if it has some time. So I could do prazi for now, and if velvet/ich appears add copper into the mix.

no inverts will ever be in this tank, so no worry about the copper... claim is it can be removed with carbon, I'm curious if anyone has done any testing to verify cupramine will leach copper out of the rocks later if you run carbon?

100% of my fish disease experience is with freshwater, never had a saltwater fish exhibit symptoms of a disease... petco ruined my 18 year record. -I also got in an argument with an employee about ich when I was looking for cupramine at petco haha... (fresh water dip always works + ich is in all water, stress causes ich.. typical stuff -The icing was when he told me I needed to do some research)

 

[rffanat1c]

I'd start cupramine. Ramp it up slower then recommended though. If this is your DT, you can't do this right with rock in it. Rock will absorb and release copper making the levels unstable. Be better if you can get a qt tank and do it in there. Also research TTM. If you treat in a qt you'll need to leave your DT fallow for 72 days to kill ich and velvet. If all you have is your DT, then it's a gamble on how stable your copper levels will be

 

[Mishri]

They are in a QT, with live rock. And screw TTM, if it's flukes or velvet it wouldn't work. I could remove the live rock, but then I'd expect an ammonia spike.

 

[Dmorty217]

Get the seachem copper test to test for the cupramine. Copper test kits won't work for cupramine

 

[Mishri]

Yep, that's one I got. Thanks (I know my tank isn't setup as a proper QT, live rock instead of HOB skimmer, it wasn't originally going to be a QT tank)

Is live rock causing fluctuation in copper levels a common issue in people's experience, with cupramine? I could pull it out and get an aquaclear filter and some pcv no big deal.

according to seachem's website though it's safe to use with live rock because it's special also according to their site .2-.8 is effective/safe, so keeping it at .5 shouldn't be an issue if it fluctuates a bit, i can test 3x a day if needed.

I've read that prazipro + cupramine is safe and fish still eat will with that combo.. I think I'll give that a shot unless anyone raises their hand saying not a good idea. I think that's the best action given the limited visible signs.

 

[Mishri]

I guess my other option is to dose prazipro to start, and wait till I see visible signs before doing cupramine... But I hate waiting to that point, because by then the fish is gonna be in rough shape.

 

[rffanat1c]

It is safe with rock and the bacteria but can still be absorbed by the rock. I'm pretty sure you can do prazipro and cupramine at the same time. If it's ich, TTM will have the least long term damage. If it's the other two, acting fast is necessary.

 

[Mishri]

Well then... I've been struggling with copper, even with frequent testing/dosing the rock absorbs it enough that most of the time it tests 0 within 24 hours(Not running UV or skimming, or carbon). So copper + live rock apparently is impossible to dose properly. Not just difficult


I ran UV to clear up a bacterial bloom till last Friday, turned off the skimmer and UV, dosed prazipro on 2/27. on 3/1 I saw physical evidence of Velvet on my clownfish. I performed a fresh water dip and it cleared it up nicely. I didn't see any flukes in the water so my guess is they don't have flukes and I wont dose prazipro again. I understand there are better medications than copper to treat velvet.

So... are there some medications that claim to treat velvet that don't work? Are there some I should specifically look for? I'd like to grab something today because now my tang is showing velvet. I just dipped the tang on 3/1, should I perform another or would it be too harmful?

When I performed the fresh water dip, should I have placed them in a different aquarium so they didn't get re-infected? that is what is looking like I screwed up. And I do have my 40g fully cycled that can take the fish if you guys think a freshwater dip + clean tank = no more velvet. (If all the fish die I'm also willing to let that tank sit fallow)


Another option is removing the live rock and putting in PVC and dosing copper, but it sounds like there are faster/better methods of treatment.


My guess is my UV running kept the velvet in check for a bit.

 

[Deinonych]

If you can get it, chloroquine phosphate is the preferred treatment for Amyloodinium ocellatum. One does of 10mg/L for 30 days is all that is needed. Should be done in a QT, though.

 

[Mishri]

Not likely, it requires a prescription doesn't it?

Looking for something I can pick up at a LFS. From what I've been reading online my best bet will be to remove the live rock, put in the pvc, get the copper to .5mg. do a freshwater dip on the tang that shows visible signs. and if I can maintain .5mg he shouldn't get re-infected.

And these fish are in QT... I just didn't have it setup as a "standard qt" as it had rocks in it.

 

[andy01748]

Not likely, it requires a prescription doesn't it?

New Life Spectrum Ich Shield Powder is CP. Ignore the marketing name and use for other diseases!

 

[Mishri]

Cool thanks for the tip, nobody in town has that so having it shipped NDA, I'll hopefully have it tomorrow. (amazon says I'll get it then)... at least after this I'll have the medication to treat most diseases hah. (Actually I think I'll still need things for fungal or bacterial infections)

 

[Mishri]

So.. I converted my tank into a true QT tank setup. Air bubbler, hang on the back filter. removed all live rock and sand. I wasn't sure I'd get the NLS ich shield powder today..so I went ahead and dosed copper again... following directions for dosage to account for the water I removed, last night copper tested at .25 (.5 is recommended dosage).

But, the NLFS Ich Shield powder will be here tonight, it's out for delivery now I expect to have it in about 5 hours. Would you guys recommend I run carbon to remove the copper and then once it gets here dose the CP? Should I verify copper is now at 0 before dosing CP in case of interaction?

Or, since I'm already running cupramine and prazipro should I just get my copper levels to .5 and leave them there for the next 4 weeks? Or is the CP a superior option for overall fish health?