System arrangement

[alexkharden]

So I have a 75g and a 55g, and I've ordered a 190g DT. My question is, should the sump be larger, or the fuge? I know all three will be a part of the same system, but would one size be better to use for a specific application?

Also, is there a definitive guide to setting these up and what should be in them? I've read a lot on it so far, and it seems like it's mostly personal preference. Truth be told though, I don't know enough yet to have anything in the way of a preference.

Thanks!

 

[Coelli]

I'm not sure if there is a definitive. My sump is a 20 long and I just added a 30 cube as a display fuge. As long as the sump can keep up, there's no reason it has to be larger than the fuge.

 

[scubadan206]

A.sump need only be large enough to hold the things you want to keep out of the main display. Things like skimmers, heaters, reactors, and other filtration media.
Also to provide enough water so that the pump or pumps never suck too much water and run dry. A refugium on the other hand should be as large as possible, and have access to as much volume as possible. That's why most sump designs have it in the second chamber and have access to all the volume of water. I think this is really way too small and most refugiums should be three or four times that size to achieve what we want out of them.
This opens up new possibilities like having a display refugium.

 

[alexkharden]

So, based on what I listed, you'd say the 75 should be the fuge and the 50 the sump?

Would the 50 be big enough you think? I'm glad I asked because my initial inclination was to set up the reverse way.

 

[alexkharden]

Big enough for a sump that is.

 

[Coelli]

Big enough for a sump that is.

As long as you have room for baffles and your equipment, it's plenty large enough. My 20 long has my skimmer, heater, 3 drains, Jebao DC6000 return, an MJ1200 feeding 3 external reactors, the ATO float switch, Apex probes, and still has enough space for a small chaeto fuge on the side. It's supporting a 65g DT and 30g remote fuge without issues. I would make the 75g a display fuge.

The ONE issue you could run into is whether the 50g will have enough room to hold all of the water when the return is off, but if it's all set up correctly it should have more than enough. The refugium will have lower flow and therefore less water to return to the sump than the DT.

 

[alexkharden]

I hope that ends up being as nice as you make it sound. Now I just have to figure out what I need to put in it!

 

[hkgar]

Curious as to how you are going to plump it?

 

[alexkharden]

Welli was thinking from dt to fuge, fuge to sump, and sump back to dt. Was worried about how to coordinate two pumps in relation to my overflow rate in order to have a decent hourly turnover though. Considering I've read slower is better on a fuge and faster is better on a sump.

 

[Coelli]

Welli was thinking from dt to fuge, fuge to sump, and sump back to dt. Was worried about how to coordinate two pumps in relation to my overflow rate in order to have a decent hourly turnover though. Considering I've read slower is better on a fuge and faster is better on a sump.

Don't use two pumps; the best way to handle this is to tee off your return with one going up to the tank and the other going to the fuge. You can control the flow to the fuge with a ball or gate valve. You can drain the fuge either into the skimmer chamber or a fuge compartment in the sump (mine drains into the skimmer chamber).

 

[alexkharden]

But my fuge is going to be a completely separate tank? Wouldn't I still need two pumps?

 

[Coelli]

But my fuge is going to be a completely separate tank? Wouldn't I still need two pumps?

Nope! Even though it's a separate tank it can run on the same pump. All it needs is its own overflow and drains back to the sump. Tee off the return so some of the flow goes to the main tank and some goes to the fuge. Then both drain back into the sump.

 

[alexkharden]

So the fuge would need to be higher than the sump then? Because...gravity.

 

[Coelli]

So the fuge would need to be higher than the sump then? Because...gravity.

Oh, sorry, yes, I was assuming the tanks would be next to each other, not one below with the sump. In that case yes, you would need two pumps and things get more complicated. There are some threads on here where people do it, you could do a search and see how others did it.

 

[scubadan206]

Yeah I forgot the sump level has to keep enough capacity for power outages.
It's always something that needs to keep in balance. This argues for a bigger sump with more empty space of course. Always a tradeoff.
How much room do you have in total?
A bigger sump could house all your filtration and still keep 80% space for a refugium in-sump.

 

[Ron Reefman]

If you manage the siphon overflow issue from the DT well, you shouldn't need too much 'extra' space in the sump. I have a 180g DT and a 75g DT that share a 180g refugium and sump. But when I shut the pump off I only drain about 10 gallons to the sump.

I have added a john guest elbow into the return lines where I had anti-siphon holes. The john guest elbows allow me to set the open end right at the water surface so the siphon breaks very quickly. I think siphoning only 10 gallons out of 2 tanks totaling 250 gallons is pretty small. I just redid the return line for my frag tank and the john guest elbow is even out of the water and has no water coming out. So when I turn off the pump, the siphon breaks immediately and only the water in the return plumbing drains to the sump, less than 1 gallon.

You'll have a 190g tank so I'd assume you'll have at least 8 to 10 gallons if your anti-siphon hole is 1" below the surface. With the john guest elbow you could cut that in half or better.