Tang specific problems?

[Moort82]

Does anyone know of a disease/problem which causes rapid breathing in tangs?
The reason i ask is my yellow tang which is around 10 years old, so not particularly old, has developed very rapid gill movement and lost its appetite. It hasn't eaten since monday, apart from the odd peck of the rockwork, and has no real interest in food at all. It is still active but slowly mooching rather than exploring. There are no real signs of disease apart from the breathing, with maybe only a little fading of body colour which i put down to not feeding. It swims into the flow of a powerhead from time to time but doesn't seem to seek out extra oxygen.

The other fish show no signs of distress and if it weren't from the tang, everything would be normal. Nothing has been done to the tanks, no new additions for over 6 months and water is testing normally with nitrate under 5ppm, no nitrite or ammonia and pH 8.3.
I did a little digging and it seems that this may be a common problem with tangs but most people equate it to diseases like ich or velvet which i am sure it is not. This is the biggest fish in the system so couldn't completely rule out ammonia poisoning but haven't had any deaths or unexpecting events for several years.

Your help would be appreciated as i'm quite attached to the little fella.

 

[HumbleFish]

Ammonia is possible, but so is parasites (Ich, Velvet) or worms (Flukes) invading just the gills.

The 6 months of no new additions... does this also include corals/inverts? If you've had Ich in your tank all this time, but none of the fish ever showed symptoms... then a 10 y/o tang with a weakening immune system might be the first one to show symptoms.

 

[Moort82]

Hi thanks,
There definitely doesn't appear to be any signs of disease on the fish. I even checked for velvet by doing the illumination from above trick and no sign of anything there. That doesn't mean that it isn't ich (ruled out velvet as it would have been dead by now) and is only presenting in the gills but i don't think thats a likely scenario.
I'd be surprised if there was an ammonia spike. If there was it would have been limited as there was no sign of it in the readings.
It's longer than six months since the last coral went in, probably a year. The fish are always fully qt but i admit the corals weren't. The last time i saw ich or anything else in this system was over 8 years ago and depending on what you read this makes it less likely to be ich.
I think the general health of the fish before is what is helping now. It was always a greedy feeder and the boss (although other fish are much smaller so no real competition). It also hasn't noticably gone downhill. It is slightly thinner and the colour has faded a little but apart from the rapid breathing and the fact i know that fish inside out, there isn't much else helping to id the problem.

 

[HumbleFish]

Until you know something definitive, I would focus on boosting his immune system for the time being. Feed lots of nori. Soak his food/nori in vitamin supplements. Step up your WCs. This "sounds" like Ich, but I wouldn't do anything drastic until you know for sure.

 

[Moort82]

I wish i could get it eating but it really isn't interested. I've tried every food known to man and it isn't even pecking at the rocks. I do leave vit soaked nori in there all day but haven't seen any of it go.
The fish isn't picked on at all but is noticably slower than before. Its been 8 days now and it is still active. I had a real good look at it today and the gills are normal inside, or as much as i could see. That partly rules out ammonia poisoning. The fact that everything else is as normal kinda confirms that to me.

I've never personally seen ich without spots and there is definitely no evidence of them in this case. I've worked in the industry for a few years and seen hundreds of fish and nothing has presented in this way which has me really puzzled.
I've had to treat for most problems over the years and nothing really fits, which is the frustrating bit.
If it was ich i would have assumed there would be some degree of spreading as the fish has been effected for so long now and must be severely weaker because of it. Please by making assumptions and kinda ruling ich out in my head that i'm not listening to your advice. I very much am as i may well be wrong. So i appreciate your views on this.

 

[Moort82]

And just so all the info is there. I checked the water parameters again. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate under 5ppm, pH 8.3 and temp 24.1c.
I did a larger than normal water change yesterday. I'd also previously used an ammonia remover just incase that was the problem, followed by a water change a few hours after. All the wc water is mixed a couple of days before and checked before addition to minimise stress and i do the wc through the sump so the stress is reduced further.

 

[HumbleFish]

Another possibility is just old age. I know a YT can live a lot longer than 10 years, but who knows how old he was when you got him. If none of your other fish seem affected, I would just do what you can and let whatever happens happen. Unless you see signs of a disease.

 

[Moort82]

Thanks, that is the conclusion i'd hope is right. It wasn't massive when i got it but bigger than the ones which seem to be coming through nowadays. Maybe a couple of years at most, so still young.
I guess sometimes the unnatural environment of a tank isn't the best place for a fish. I'm sure it would have been picked off by a predator by now if it was in the wild and its suffering ended (although it doesn't seem to be suffering). If it doesn't make it i will give it the full going over. I have a friend who works at a public aquaria, so i'll take some skin scrapings for peach of mind.
I do appreciate all your help though.

 

[triggreef]

You didn't mention if you treat with prazi in your qt. I would suspect flukes but just my .02

 

[Moort82]

Hi, i've never been able to find prazi over here (lots of medications easily available in the States are highly regulated or banned over here). Instead i use tremazol which is designed for gill and body flukes as well as internal parasites. I will admit that i didn't initially use it as part of my qt routine but the last fish would have been the tang that didn't go through it and that would have been around 9 years ago. I'm not sure if the parasites can survive that long, or whether they have infected the fish at a smaller level over the years.
The reason i have ruled it out is because it hasn't really presented like the gill fluke infections i've seen in the past. I know that its probably foolish to assume in this case. There is the appetites loss and rapid gill movement but i don't see any of the other symptoms like gasping at the surface or laying on the bottom, there is no mucus covering to the gills and they aren't opening abnormally, the gills are completely intact, there is no flashing or flicking and the fins aren't moving rapidly.

Over the past week i have tried literally everything including lots of water changes, some reasonably big, to improve water quality which i don't think was anything but good anyway, and rule out things like ammonia poisoning etc. I am still at a complete loss and decided to qt the fish in new water, ruling out environmental. Whilst its there i will try various treatments depending on how well it does with just new water and i think gill flukes is the best thing to consider first.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Moort82]

The little guy is still hanging on. Now in qt ruling out an environmental factor (the rest of the reef it came from is doing well as usual), i've treated for gill flukes and external parasites. This hasn't seemed to make any difference to the breathing or general behaviour.
I also treating for an bacterial infection at the moment which i put down to stress.

Its still not eating, it has been but only after i began to hand feed with a syringe. This got it started and it did begin to eat frozen food and nori again but after it picked up the bacterial infection it has stopped again. Hopefully i can knock off the infection but i still can't solve the original problem (the gills appear normal after close inspection, ruling out ammonia damage from early).
As always would appreciate any input or thoughts anyone has.

 

[HumbleFish]

Hey, don't know if it will help but I found this place. They have 3 different sizes of Prazi available and say, "ORDERS OVER £20 SHIP FOR FREE!" I have no experience with this place.... I just found it by using Google. Might be worth looking into. They have over 6 pages of meds - including stuff like Cupramine, Maracyn, Erythromycin, Furan-2, Quick-Cure that a lot us keep in our fish medicine cabinets over here.

 

[Moort82]

Thanks bud. Sorry i should have mentioned that i tried prazi and have a few of the ones you mention now as well as a friend went to Texas a couple of weeks ago and i took advantage.
The tang still refuses to eat and has began to lose weight for the first time which is quite remarkable considering how long this has gone on. I will still keep trying but i think we're onto a loser here.

 

[MrTuskfish]

This is a fairly old fish and could just be his time. Sounds like a fish on his way to nori heaven.

 

[hollister]

You say he doesnt seek out oxygen but rapid breathing is a sign of low oxygen levels. Salt water recieves oxygen from a gas exchange at the surface. Rapid water flow and open air space at top help promote this. Your tank removes nitrogen and brings in oxygen at the surface. Im sure you know this but im still curious what size tank you have and whats used for water flow and tanks age would be helpfull?

 

[Moort82]

This is a fairly old fish and could just be his time. Sounds like a fish on his way to nori heaven.

That's what i have thought since this all started tbh. It won't stop me trying my best to make sure but i won't let it suffer, which it doesn't appear to be at the moment.

 

[Moort82]

You say he doesnt seek out oxygen but rapid breathing is a sign of low oxygen levels. Salt water recieves oxygen from a gas exchange at the surface. Rapid water flow and open air space at top help promote this. Your tank removes nitrogen and brings in oxygen at the surface. Im sure you know this but im still curious what size tank you have and whats used for water flow and tanks age would be helpfull?

The tank was a lightly stocked 4x2x2ft, open topped with an overated skimmer and turnover, included vigorous surface agitation, or 50-70X depending if all the pumps are on on the wavemaker.
The tank is 8 years old and well maintained.

The fish has gone into a 150L qt tank again with excellent surface agitation but less flow. It is the only fish in there and its condition hasn't changed since its been in there. All the fish in the main system continue to be uneffected.