Tank Cycling

[tilo]

Op and mods I aplogize for my inappropriate remarks.
Misdirected personal issues the wrong way.

Please take the advice from the other guys on here. I wish I would have found this site a lot earlier, as I have made the same mistakes and learned the hard way.

 

[saltynewbie904]

Bio-Spira

Bio-Spira

Good evening,

Thank you all for stepping in on that rude comment. I am posting one test per 24 hours in the hopes that someone will step in and make constructive suggestions along my trip to success.

I used Bio-Spira when I set the tank up and followed the instructions the LFS provided me. They also gave me the bottle for free when I set my tank up and cautioned to proceed slowly with adding anything. They also were very informative and suggested starting with live rock. I have about 10lbs of live rock and about 15lbs of white rock. The biggest of the live rocks came from a mature tank that ruptured and the owner sold the rocks to the store.

The following is tonight's water test. I have also had three LFS test the water today to and they all said the water was looking good with the same result as my test. I wanted to rule out the possibility of me not performing the tests correctly like someone stated in another overly critical post above.

Tank Setup 11/08/2014

Test 1 11/10/2014
Ph = 8.2 - 8.4
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 5ppm

Test 2 11/11/2014
Ph = 8.2 - 8.4
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 5ppm

Test 3 11/12/2014
Ph = 8.2 - 8.4
Ammonia = 0.25ppm
Nitrite = 0.50ppm
Nitrate = 40ppm

Test 4 11/13/2014
Ph = 8.2 - 8.4
Ammonia = 0.25
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 20ppm

Test 5 11/14/2014
Ph = 8.2 - 8.4
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 10ppm

Test 6 11/15/2014
Ph = 8.2 - 8.4
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 5ppm

 

[Tiberione]

I still don't consider this stable

Here's a product many reefers recommend:

Make sure your readings are stable for at least a week then try adding some hardy fish.. 1 or 2 small ones.. Then watch your readings. The point is to slowly build up your bacteria base to support your fish.

I don't trust products for cycling a tank, I honestly just think LR and patience is the best way to establish a good bacteria colony.

 

[saltynewbie904]

Tiberione

Tiberione

Thanks for the good advice! I appreciate the most that it was constructive and honest and not trolling. At this time I already have a fish, cond anemone, peppermint shrimp, CC starfish, and a blue tail damsel. So, it is a little too late for the warning of not adding anything, as I added most of the creatures by day three. However, so far the creatures are living and not dying, fingers crossed! I am however removing the CC Starfish and returning him to the LFS for credit. I found out after the buy that CC starfish will eat the coral I plan to put in the tank.

Also, I am really excited about my new lighting. Today I went and bought a 24" - 36" adjustable LED fixture with moonlighting for the night hours. It is really colorful in the tank with the night light on. I wish I could snap a picture, but my camera eye on my phone doesn't focus due to the blue LED lighting. I am planning on adding some coral down the road, so I read up and the first thing I noticed I needed to change was the T8 florescent. Everything I read stated to use either LED or high output T5. So, I got the LED which the LFS was having a lighting sale and I got 25% off plus an extra $5 off bargaining.

GOOD STUFF!!!

 

[garyinco]

It looks to me like the cycle is completed. Test on 11/17 (let it settle for a day) and then go grab a couple of fish. Cardinals are good first fish, IMO. Its always best to QT new fish for a couple of weeks or 5, but I doubt you're prepared for that.

Your nitrate tests are not accurate unless you are changing lots of water. Nitrates don't drop unless you are mitigating them with something. Are you changing out water every day? That would drop the nitrates, but if you are you need to slow down. This hobby requires a ton of patience. Rushing things never ever pays off.

 

[pisanoal]

Thanks for the good advice! I appreciate the most that it was constructive and honest and not trolling. At this time I already have a fish, cond anemone, peppermint shrimp, CC starfish, and a blue tail damsel. So, it is a little too late for the warning of not adding anything, as I added most of the creatures by day three. However, so far the creatures are living and not dying, fingers crossed! I am however removing the CC Starfish and returning him to the LFS for credit. I found out after the buy that CC starfish will eat the coral I plan to put in the tank.

Also, I am really excited about my new lighting. Today I went and bought a 24" - 36" adjustable LED fixture with moonlighting for the night hours. It is really colorful in the tank with the night light on. I wish I could snap a picture, but my camera eye on my phone doesn't focus due to the blue LED lighting. I am planning on adding some coral down the road, so I read up and the first thing I noticed I needed to change was the T8 florescent. Everything I read stated to use either LED or high output T5. So, I got the LED which the LFS was having a lighting sale and I got 25% off plus an extra $5 off bargaining.

GOOD STUFF!!!

I'm not going to scold you, but would recommend doing more research on the future inhabitants of your tank. There are a lot of creatures in this hobby with many different needs. Make sure you understand the needs of any livestock before you purchase it. Also be su're to research the impact it may have on your tank. Some coral require intense light and pristine water, others require regular feeding, etc. Some will take over your tank if you are not careful. Some fish will kill some of your coral. You need to fully understand your tank and your livestock to keep your tank happy and to make sure you have as much of stress free experience as possible.

 

[Tiberione]

There's a fish compatibility thread in the new reefers section I think.. I'd go post there.. And yep lots of reading. Remember that when you buy a fish its your responsibility for the life of the fish.. A lot of people don't realize and blame their tank or whatever for the death of their fish..

Anyways best of luck!!! Hopefully your tank doesn't go through swings.

 

[Tiberione]

Also as for lighting I think the best you can do is hit all the spectrum you can and maintain 5 watts per gallon.

 

[Eac7466]

I am curious also how the nitrates are dropping so fast. I have been working on getting mine down with large water changes and not having much luck. I have a lot of rock that was added that is leaking nitrates out like crazy

 

[saltynewbie904]

Nitrates

Nitrates

All three fish stores I talked to stated, "Your nitrates from your test results are good. The higher 40ppm nitrate dropped to 10ppm, because the bacteria in the live rock is coming to life and eating up the nitrate." Someone can step in here and comment if they have any other conclusions on the matter. I am no where near an expert, but am taking constructive advice when I see the logic in it.

Also, I used Bio-Spira, live sand, and live rock to start up the tank. Which everyone I have talked to has said this was a great foundation and is the reason I am having such luck with my inhabitants.

I have provided a picture of my tank. (Day 8)

 

[Tiberione]

If you can cycle in a week that's amazing..

Also sometimes LFSs are amazing..at being crooks.. and will give you misleading advice and then say "want to buy a fish?".. Nitrates read 0 but it may not mean the tank is ready.. Try adding a source of ammonia and let it decay and watch your parameters.. Remember if you don't build up a proper bacteria colony and start adding things that poop all the time like fish you may be in for some nasty chemicals on your water

 

[gone fishin]

Do not add any ammonia source to the tank it already has livestock in it. At this point just do some WC when needed and do not add anything for awhile.

 

[E Rosewater]

I do believe nitrite interferes with nitrate measurement. The nitrate didn't drop, the nitrite did.

 

[hampsterblade]

Lots of good advice all around. Even if your fish survive the cycle be careful, especially with the damsel. Fish that go through the cycle tend to become pretty agressive and damsels are mean fish. They can tear up fish much larger than themselves. I would see if someone could take care of your fish while you cycle. Some fish stores will do this for a small fee. And like others have said biospira doesn't do much. Its all about patience. Usually after about 3 weeks you are ready to add your clean up crew. After the water stabilizes then you should add 1 or 2 fish. Wait 6 months for coral once the nuscience algae is gone, although you may be able to get away with a beginner coral a bit earlier.
Also read around a bit more. HOB filters are generally not recommended as they can cause nitrate spikes. A skimmer would be a good idea though.

 

[Airborne12B]

All three fish stores I talked to stated, "Your nitrates from your test results are good. The higher 40ppm nitrate dropped to 10ppm, because the bacteria in the live rock is coming to life and eating up the nitrate." Someone can step in here and comment if they have any other conclusions on the matter. I am no where near an expert, but am taking constructive advice when I see the logic in it.

Also, I used Bio-Spira, live sand, and live rock to start up the tank. Which everyone I have talked to has said this was a great foundation and is the reason I am having such luck with my inhabitants.

I have provided a picture of my tank. (Day 8)

Hey bud. First off, welcome to the forum. and welcome to the hobby! Let's dive right in. I'm sure you've heard of the Nitrogen Cycle by now. There is a lot more going on in it than any of the graphs and images that Google will throw your' way. The most important thing to understand (IMO) about it is understanding the two types of bacteria. Aerobic bacteria and anaerobic bacteria. Aerobic bacteria is the more social of the two. It grows on just about anything. Sand surface, rock surfaces, etc. These little dudes eat ammonia, turn it into NO2 (nitrite) and then into NO3 (nitrate). The other is much less social. It only lives in areas where there is no oxygen. Under the sand bed, the deep internal holes of live rock etc. These guys are in charge of turning that NO3 into nitrogen gas by breathing it, not eating it. That gas will naturally pop smoke, and BAM! There goes your' NO3. The only problem with that is there isn't a lot of places in your tank where the anaerobic bacteria can live. So essentially you end up with a single goat trying to clear two acre of brush before anything has a chance to grow back. It just isn't going to happen. That's why we need to do water changes. Sometimes we need to get a lawnmower, and help out that dang goat.

So yes, what your LFS told you is true to an extent. Bacteria does consume NO3, but then again so does algae. The problem I see is the drastic drop. Shedding half of your' NO3 in a day would be a feat even for a large water change. I say that because short of having a totally legit RO/DI setup you're always going to be putting NO3 in your tank just from the water alone. The only time the Nitrogen Cycle works flawlessly and doesn't require intervention on our part is in nature. That being said there is no plausible way I can convince you or myself that those readings provide the evidence you need to say your' cycle is done.

Earlier you mentioned that pictures are worth a thousand words and they completely are! Just by looking at the rock in the picture it shows the tank isn't finished cycling. It's in the sneaky deceiving stage where it looks like its great, right before you realize it isn't. It's isn't possible that in 8 days you have enough hungry hungry anaerobic hippos in your tank to consume that much NO3 that fast. Even if your live rock was 100% cured with 100% bacterial saturation, there just hasn't been enough time for that bacteria to culture in the other 2/3 of rock. A perfect example is when people move. I for one have never packed up, moved, unpacked and hung all my pictures, and gotten completely settled in 8 days. And that's with the help of friends, beer, and pizza. Either something happened in the test, or the ebb and flow that new tanks go through is extra violent in your case. I don't know.

I hope I didn't bore you, or end up sounding like a jerk. I also hope that you take it slow, if not for the sake of the life in your care, or your' wallet, at least take the time to enjoy every step of this process. I love watching mysterious creatures pop out of my live rock in the night, and watching them turn something sterile into a Hilton. Best of luck to you bud!

 

[Tiberione]

Do not add any ammonia source to the tank it already has livestock in it. At this point just do some WC when needed and do not add anything for awhile.

Crud I forgot he added livestock already... My bad!

 

[MinnFish]

All three fish stores I talked to stated, "Your nitrates from your test results are good. The higher 40ppm nitrate dropped to 10ppm, because the bacteria in the live rock is coming to life and eating up the nitrate." Someone can step in here and comment if they have any other conclusions on the matter. I am no where near an expert, but am taking constructive advice when I see the logic in it.

Also, I used Bio-Spira, live sand, and live rock to start up the tank. Which everyone I have talked to has said this was a great foundation and is the reason I am having such luck with my inhabitants.

I have provided a picture of my tank. (Day 8)

I just found a solution to high nitrates. I want some of that bacteria. . Can I suggest you find a different mentor. They have grossly misinformed you. Do you mean nitrites?

 

[saltynewbie904]

Thank you all for the awesome feedback!

Although, I do have a question. I see some variations of what looks like green algae growing on one of my live rocks.

So, is there anything anyone would recommend for keeping it under control?
I don't want to sound rude and I am not trying to be, but if you comment please don't say, "what you should have done" as it is to late for that. I started into this with only the advice of the LFS. I joined the forum late in the game on this tank.

While I personally see the tank and tests daily not having disastrous problems, I don't know enough to be 100% positive. That is why I joined the forum to get positive advice from you. In the future, through the knowledge and experience I gain from here and my tank, I will be able to help others like me.

Thanks for all the great advice and guidance in advance! [emoji3]

 

[Tiberione]

There's lots of forms of algae control but it's going to happen anyways since your tank is new. I've been fighting algae in my 65 for a few months now..

Just keep it out of your tank as much as you can, this means scrub and syphon what you can. Be careful to use RODI and do waterchanges. You'll be fine.

 

[gone fishin]

Since it is a new tank you will get some algae come and go. As long as you do not overfeed and do not have your lights on to long you should be OK. Right now your best friend for any hair algae is it pluck it off. I would not be surprised if you do not see some cyano or diatoms. It may be a bit of a bumpy ride for a bit until your chemistry and bacteria get stabilized.