Tank Maturity and SPS Coral Growth

navyfishguy

New member
So I was wondering why tank "Maturity" is often the diagnosis we give new people starting in SPS keeping. If a tank has completely gone through a cycle and has rock solid parameters how does "maturity" factor in? Is there any science behind or is it just hear say. if someone could answer this with some sort of tangible evidence i would really appreciate it. Thanks and happy reefing. cheers :beer:
 
I can't say I have scientific evidence, but in my case I am just about to hit the 1 year point.
Over the last month, stability has finally been dialled in. Sps are getting great colour. Growth has been great and polyp extension is getting better day by day. I never believed people saying that the first year you should stay away from sps. If I had my time again I would be going much slower that what I have done in the previous year.
 
I don't believe this to be true. IMO, stable water parameters are what is needed. I think the one year mark counts for newbies. The year gives one enough experience to keep a stable healthy tank.
 
I don't believe this to be true. IMO, stable water parameters are what is needed. I think the one year mark counts for newbies. The year gives one enough experience to keep a stable healthy tank.

Agreed that 1 year is for newbies (i only started up the tank a year ago, no previous marine experience) If you were changing to a bigger reef etc and taking all your equipment etc over with coral and water then it will be shorter. A new tank won't be instantly stable. Would take 2-3 months to be stable.
 
I just hate writing a newbies struggles off on the fact the he has a new tank. I would really like to see a study if there is one out there on this. please someone chime in
 
All i know is it takes me about 6 months in a new tank before the sps really get poppin. Thats after lots of years of experience too.
 
Taken from a thread by Eric Borneman in 2006 on Marine Depots Forum, though I don't always agree with everything, but this is a very good explanation of the processes that happen in our tanks and what maturation actually is.

"Hi Eric, I was hoping you could help me to understand better what it means for a system to "mature" or "become established". Hobbyists (me included) are always saying not to keep that sps or this anenome for a least a year until your system has matured. What exactly are the differences between a tank which finished cycling a month ago and one that finished cycling 11 months ago? Does it have to do with water parameters being more stable? Does it have to do with natural food availability? Does "tank maturity" pertain more to those who utilize a DSB, because it takes 6 months for a DSB to become functional ?<<

Tank maturity seems to be even more of an issue without the sand bed. The sand bed just takes some time to get enough nutrients in it to sustain populations and stratify into somewhat stable communities and become functional. So, here's the tank reason, and then I'll blow into some ecology for you. When you get a tank, you start with no populations of anything. You get live rock to form the basis of the biodiversity - and remember that virtually everything is moderated by bacteria and photosynthesis in our tanks. So liverock is the substrate for all these processes, and also has a lot of life on it. How much depends on a lot of things.

Mostly, marine animals and plants don't like to be out of water for a day at a time...much less the many days to sometimes a week that often happens. So, assuming you are not using existing rock from a tank, or the well-treated aquacultured stuff, you have live rock that is either relatively free of anything alive to begin with, or you have live rock with a few stragglers and a whole lot of stuff dying or about to die because it won't survive in the tank. Some, if not most, rock exporters have a "œcuring process" that gets rid of a lot of the life to begin with and some of this is to keep it from dying and fouling further, but some of it would have lived if treated more carefully.

From the moment you start, you are in the negative. Corallines will be dying, sponges, dead worms and crustaceans and echinoids and bivalves, many of which are in the rock and you won't ever see. Not to mention the algae, cyanobacteria, and bacteria, most of which is dehydrated, dead or dying, and will decompose. This is where the existing bacteria get kick started. Bacteria grow really fast, and so they are able to grow to levels that are capable of uptaking nitrogen within...well, the cycling time of a few weeks to a month or so. The "œstarter bacteria" products give me a chuckle. Anyone with a passing knowledge of microbiology would realize that for a product to contain live bacteria in a medium that sustains it would quickly turn into a nearly solid mass of bacteria, and if the medium is such that it keeps them inactive, then the amount of bacteria in a bottle is like adding a grain of salt to the ocean compared to what is going to happen quickly in a tank with live rock in it.

However, if you realize the doubling time of these bugs, you would know that in a month, you should have a tank packed full of bacteria and no room for water. That means something is killing or eating bacteria. Also realize that if you have a tank with constant decomposition happening at a rate high enough to spike ammonia off the scale, you have a lot of bacteria food...way more than you will when things stop dying off and decomposing. So, bacterial growth may have caught up with the level of nitrogen being produced, but things are still dying...you just test zero for ammonia because there are enough bacteria present to keep up with the nitrogen being released by the dying stuff. It does not necessarily mean things are finished decomposing or that ammonia is not being produced.

Now, if things are decomposing, they are releasing more than ammonia. Guess what dead sponges release? All their toxic metabolites. Guess what else? All their natural antibiotic compounds which prevents some microbes from doing very well. Same with the algae, the inverts, the cyano, the dinoflagellates, etc. They all produce things that can be toxic "“ and sometimes toxic to things we want, and sometimes to things we don't want. So, let's just figure this death and decomposition is going take a while.

OK, so now we have a tank packed with some kinds of bacteria, probably not much of others. Eventually the death stops. Now, what happens to all that biomass of bacteria without a food source? They die. Some continue on at an equilibrium level with the amount of nutrients available. And, denitrification is a slow process. Guess what else? Bacteria also have antibiotics, toxins, etc. all released when they die. But, the die-off is slow, relative to the loss of nutrients, and there is already a huge population, and yet you never test ammonia. "The water tests fine." But, all these swings are happening. Swings of death, followed by growth until limited, then death again, then nutrients available for growth, and then limitation and death. But, every time, they get less and less, but they keep happening "“ even in mature tanks. Eventually, they slow and stabilize.

What's left? A tank with limited denitrification (because its slow and aerobic things happen fast) and a whole lot of other stuff in the water. Who comes to the rescue and thrives during these cycles? The next fastest growing groups...cyanobacteria, single celled algae, protists, ciliates, etc. Then they do their little cycle thing. And then the turf algae take advantage of the nutrients (the hair algae stage). Turfs get mowed down by all the little amphipods that are suddenly springing up because they have a food source. Maybe you've bought some snails by now, too, or a fish. And the fish dies, of course, because it may not have ammonia to contend with, but is has water filled with things we can't and don't test for...plus, beginning aquarists usually skimp on lights and pumps initially, and haven't figured out that alkalinity test, so pH and O2 are probably swinging wildly at this point.

So, the algae successions kick in, and eventually you have a good algal biomass that handles nitrogen, produces oxygen through photosynthesis, takes up the metabolic CO2 of all the other heterotrophs you can't see, the bacteria have long settled in and also deal with nutrients, and the aquarium keeper has probably stopped adding fish for a spell because they keep dying. Maybe they started to visit boards and read books and get the knack of the tank a bit. They have probably also added a bunch of fix-it-quick chemicals that didn't help any, either. Also, they are probably scared to add corals that would actually help with the photosynthesis and nutrient uptake, or they have packed in corals that aren't tolerant of those conditions.

About a year into it, the sand bed is productive and has stratified, water quality is stable, and the aquarist has bought a few more powerheads, understands water quality a bit, corallines and algae, if not corals and other things are photosynthesizing well, and the tank is "mature." That's when fish stop dying when you buy them (at least the cyanide free ones) and corals start to live and grow and I stop getting posts about "I just bought a coral and its dying and my tank is two months old" and they start actually answering some questions here and there instead of just asking questions (though we should all always be asking questions, if not only to ourselves!).

So, ecologically, this is successional population dynamics. Its normal, and it happens when there is a hurricane or a fire, or whatever. In nature though, you have pioneer species that are eventually replaced by climax communities. We usually try and stock immediately with climax species. And find it doesn't always work.

Now, the "too mature" system is the old tank syndrome. Happens in nature, too. That whole forest fire reinvigorating the system is true. Equally true on coral reefs where the intermediate disturbance hypothesis is the running thought on why coral reefs maintain very high diversity...they are stable, but not too stable, and require storms, but not catastrophic ones....predation, but not a giant blanket of crown of thorns, mass bleaching, or loss of key herbivores.

This goes to show what good approximations these tanks are of mini-ecosystems. Things happen much faster in tanks, but what do you expect given the bioload per unit area. So, our climax community happens in a couple years rather than a couple of centuries. Thing is, I am fully convinced that intermediate tank disturbance would prevent old tank syndrome.

My advice on starting tanks is to plan the habitat you want. Find the animals and corals you like. Learn about the tiny area of the reef you will try and recreate, and do not try to make a whole coral reef in one tank. Then, purchase the equipment required to emulate that environment. Then, add the appropriate types of substrate (sand, rubble, rock, whatever) and wait long after "œyour tank water tests fine" before you add fish and corals. First, add herbivores and maintain water quality. Water changes, carbon, skimming, alkalinity, calcium. Keep the water of high quality, even for things you can't test for. Wait a few months and enjoy the growth that will happen. Then, add some of the species that you plan to keep"¦.invertebrates and corals. They help create the environment, and also photosynthesize, add biodiversity, stabilize nutrients, etc. Then"¦.then"¦.add fish. The fish will have a reef as their new home. They won't be stressed by this variable bouilllabaise of water and a strange habitat that keeps changing as things are added or die. They will have a stable tank with real habitat, and then the original concept you imagined will have happened."
 
Yeah one of the things in what Broneman wrote I agree with is fish in a reef tank. That is pretty much how you know the tank is doing well. Especially with specialty fish that are known for ich or other diseases, if they are doing well its always a good sign your tank is mature.. Oh and good coraline algae growth :) I'm not sure if I agree with the whole year thing, it can be done in under 6 months IMO.
 
Whilst the article by Eric Borneman contains some good advice for those new to the hobby it is outdated as to current methodologies, particularly the use of DSB's which are no longer used by many successful reef keepers based on the journals posted here. The trend towards systems with lower overall nutrient levels, shallow or no substrate at all and more tightly controlled water parameters - in particular phos and nitrate levels, allows those who understand and know what to expect in a new tank's cycles to control and stabilize their systems much sooner than was the norm when that article was written.
The most useful piece of information that i see in that article and the one that is ignored or unknown by 99% of reef keepers both new and old is this:

First, add herbivores and maintain water quality. Water changes, carbon, skimming, alkalinity, calcium. Keep the water of high quality, even for things you can't test for. Wait a few months and enjoy the growth that will happen. Then, add some of the species that you plan to keep"¦.invertebrates and corals. They help create the environment, and also photosynthesize, add biodiversity, stabilize nutrients, etc. Then"¦.then"¦.add fish. The fish will have a reef as their new home. They won't be stressed by this variable bouilllabaise of water and a strange habitat that keeps changing as things are added or die. They will have a stable tank with real habitat, and then the original concept you imagined will have happened."

If you add organisms (fish) that necessitate the need to add pollutants (food) to the tank on a daily basis you will increase the difficulty of managing the system and in most cases lengthen the time it takes to reach this mythological 'mature' point in the life of your reef system. It is extremely easy to manage your nutrient levels when you are under no obligation to add anything that will contribute to a rise in water pollutants leading to the inevitable algae cycles that follow. 'My nitrates and phos are high' - no probs, stop adding food to the tank - slightly simplistic but very effective for nutrient control.
I have no idea how much fish poo and wee contributes to an SPS coral's nutrition but i do know it isn't required at all if other SPS food sources are maintained. I personally add more food daily to my tank than i would be adding if i had 3-4 fish and just fed them and relied on their wastes to feed my corals yet i can maintain zero nitrates and phos without any high tech water quality control equipment and have good coral growth - by good i mean 1" frag plugs encrusted with coral growth in under a month. If i were to have the slightest rise in unwanted pollutants i can easily withdraw or reduce feeding - corals might sulk but fish will starve and die.
Unfortunately almost everyone, especially those new to the hobby just can't wait to add fish and quite often in numbers that far exceed the tank's biological filtration capabilities and then the dramas begin.
My tank is fish-less at 14 weeks, receives nothing but RO, manual 2 part dosing and daily additions of micro sized food targeted at the corals i have in the system. The one juvenile skunk shrimp i have feeds from my fingers when i feed the corals and has molted and grown without any further nutrition than what he scavenges. The amounts of 2 part required to maintain my levels is steadily rising as expected with growing corals.
In short i think a trend towards advising a longer wait before the addition of fish would be a positive move rather than suggesting SPS corals be the last addition as they certainly don't need to be and they are no harder to keep than most LPS. Without fish i could talk a wood duck through setting up a cheap low tech but successful SPS system within 3-4 months of starting the tank.
This is just my view based on my experiences with reef keeping and i'm in no way trying to upset anyone, we all have different takes on the hobby and whether you're in it for the actual reef or the chance to set up a NASA launch control center in your sump with accompanying days of our lives journal documenting screw changes and hinge upgrades i'm sure well all want the same thing - a stable and easy to maintain slice of the ocean. ( I lied - i was having a jab at those with more money and toys than i can afford :p).
Hopefully this discussion will result in some positive outcomes in regards to the setting up of a reef from day one to 'maturation' point.
 
I agree with the 6 months thing ... specially for growth.

IMHO, its the bacteria and the planktonic life that grows within a mature tank, that feeds corals and makes them grow.

first week of a tank, sps corals look nice and color up, but not much grows, at least in my cases.
 
I don't agree with the '6 month thing' and such a time period is not required at all for a tank to be crawling with planktonic life. These time periods that are just thrown out there and suddenly adopted and in may cases parroted by new reef keepers based on little or no actual experience do nothing to assist those learning the hobby. There is no time 'thing' whatsoever if you lessen the variables to manage in your system.
 
My theory - buildup of beneficial bacteria, planktonic life and most importantly tank buffering using a kh buffer or kalk wasser . I find sps do well after kalk was introduced in the tank for a few weeks. By 6 to 10 months the tank is "buffered". More stable high ph. I am a believer of kalk and two part or kalk and ca Rx. Sps water condition to me is high mg, stable kh and kalk wasser dosed system.
 
I don't agree with the '6 month thing' and such a time period is not required at all for a tank to be crawling with planktonic life. These time periods that are just thrown out there and suddenly adopted and in may cases parroted by new reef keepers based on little or no actual experience do nothing to assist those learning the hobby. There is no time 'thing' whatsoever if you lessen the variables to manage in your system.

we need to see some pics :)

but your reef tank is new ... very new ... so wait the 6 months, and see the change we are talking about...

you are a new reefer right ? do you think making conclusions based on your last 3-4 months of experience is right ? dont you think that does nothing to assist those learning ?
 
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Maturity IMO is more about biology than chemistry.

I don't believe there is a set time period in which things magically happen and my own experience with DSB's, SSB and bare bottom indicate that it isn't as much a time thing as a diversity thing. A tank can reach maturity quicker with good quality live rock than it can with dry rock. I have done both and it is sad that you cannot get good quality live rock any more like we used to. (with the exception of TBS) The bio-diversity is difficult to duplicate with dry rock. It has easily taken a year for my tank to reach a more mature level. The last tank I did with good live rock that I cured myself reached the same point in about 6 months as far as the life in the tank.

I don't often agree with Borneman but his old article is still very much relevant, at least for people just starting out. I do agree that our experience plays a part in this time thing as well. We each have a different tank, different biology in our tanks and different approached to caring for them. What took a year in my tank may take someone else 6 months or someone else two years. It isn't a cut and dried formula.
 
I am not a 'new' reefer. This is my third SPS dominant tank over the years. I corresponded with Eric Borneman years ago when he contacted me wanting information on the acropora sp. that spawned in my tank. I don't need to wait six months and your suggestion that i need to supply pics infers that my previous statements are not factual or lies. My display and every other water holding area of my system is alive with free swimming mysid sp., the rocks are infested with a variety of pods etc. Brittle stars are everywhere along with god knows what else etc so i have no intention of posting pics or video that i have already supplied in previous posts elsewhere on this forum documenting the life that exists in my reef.

you are a new reefer right ? do you think making conclusions based on your last 3-4 months of experience is right ? dont you think that does nothing to assist those learning ?

No, yes and sharing my conclusions based on what exists in my reef is a lot more helpful to those learning than 'wait six months and things will change for the better'. I'm just answering short and sweet so please don't take my replies as harsh - they aren't meant to be.
 
I am not a 'new' reefer. This is my third SPS dominant tank over the years. I corresponded with Eric Borneman years ago when he contacted me wanting information on the acropora sp. that spawned in my tank. I don't need to wait six months and your suggestion that i need to supply pics infers that my previous statements are not factual or lies. My display and every other water holding area of my system is alive with free swimming mysid sp., the rocks are infested with a variety of pods etc. Brittle stars are everywhere along with god knows what else etc so i have no intention of posting pics or video that i have already supplied in previous posts elsewhere on this forum documenting the life that exists in my reef.



No, yes and sharing my conclusions based on what exists in my reef is a lot more helpful to those learning than 'wait six months and things will change for the better'. I'm just answering short and sweet so please don't take my replies as harsh - they aren't meant to be.

so you are saying our experience of things maturing more after 6 months is wrong ?

or are you saying something else ?

mysis crawling around doesnt mean mature to me. my Azoox reef is 4 months old, and there are more creatures in it than my SPS reef.... means nothing though.

I started keeping SPS from 04 and was keeping saltwater tanks since the 90s.

I never said you need to post pics or your words are lies, but you did say others who said about 6 months more or less are just trowing it out there :)


" These time periods that are just thrown out there and suddenly adopted and in may cases parroted by new reef keepers based on little or no actual experience do nothing to assist those learning the hobby."


anyways, teach us ! you are making a claim, so share your success with us, and back it up with pics, so we can all be entertained and learn :)

thanks
 
Sigh........ i wish you hadn't taken my reply harshly Allmost but your response indicates otherwise. To answer your questions, no i don't thing your experience of observing success at the 6 month period is wrong because you have fish in your system. I gave my experiences based on my fish-less system which is clearly stated in my first post so yes i am saying something else. Mysis don't crawl they swim and your statement that your observations of your Azoox reef mean nothing makes no sense to me. The observations of what happens in all your tanks mean something to me regardless if you think otherwise.
I don't doubt your experience or your abilities Allmost and i have read your many useful and helpful contributions on this forum. If you have run a successful fish-less SPS system and it took 6 months for things to stabilize or coral growth to increase then i would submit that you did things differently to me because i experienced the same thing in less time.

I don't often agree with Borneman but his old article is still very much relevant, at least for people just starting out. I do agree that our experience plays a part in this time thing as well. We each have a different tank, different biology in our tanks and different approached to caring for them. What took a year in my tank may take someone else 6 months or someone else two years. It isn't a cut and dried formula.

Agree entirely, there are so many ways to skin a cat in reef keeping that no cut and dried rule as to a time period to add SPS to a new system exists nor should it.
I'm not pulling a 'Bugger' here and just posting to annoy you guys lol so i hope this thread doesn't go down the toilet like the zeo thread did with a 'Bugger' in the works....
 
The most useful piece of information that i see in that article and the one that is ignored or unknown by 99% of reef keepers both new and old is this:

Quote:
First, add herbivores and maintain water quality. Water changes, carbon, skimming, alkalinity, calcium. Keep the water of high quality, even for things you can’t test for. Wait a few months and enjoy the growth that will happen. Then, add some of the species that you plan to keep….invertebrates and corals. They help create the environment, and also photosynthesize, add biodiversity, stabilize nutrients, etc. Then….then….add fish. The fish will have a reef as their new home. They won’t be stressed by this variable bouilllabaise of water and a strange habitat that keeps changing as things are added or die. They will have a stable tank with real habitat, and then the original concept you imagined will have happened."

That is spot on!. I will admit it has taken me more than 10 years to come to realise that. But I realised this only after setting up my current tank. I was pondering nutrient flow and the nutrient cycle (ie in terms of nutrient buildup in the early stages, control phase during the mid, and the low nutrient point towards the end ie when we say a tank is mature).
 
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