Tank still weird

[CrayolaViolence]

I posted a while back about my Red Sea no pox experience. How the tank turned white, then clear, then after I put in some macro algae to begin seeding it for amphipods it turned brownish red. Just the water mind you. Hardly anything on the glass.

I have done over a 50% water change over a course of a couple of days, filters were not catching anything switched to a micro cloth, it does catch stuff. Skimmer is not skimming out anything, all test parameters are clear, but you'd swear you were looking into swamp water.

I recently removed ALL substrate and rock. The brown went away leaving it a foggy white.

I called red sea and they were at a loss having never heard of this happening with their product. They suggested that I return the substrate and rock to the tank cause it was basically trying to "cycle", or so that was their theory. I decided not to return the substrate but did put back in the live rock from the tank (which by the way had some coral growing on it). The corals were things like zoes, star polyps, a leather or two, anthelia, nothing critical, yet oddly, they seem to be thriving. Although you have to look really hard to see them cause they disappeared into the fog. About three days after returning the rock, the tank once again turned red.

So now I am sitting here looking at the mud pies of red seas, where all my nitrate, phosphate, ammonia, ph, you name it, come back within normal parameters. And I don't see how that's possible, but apparently it is. I still cannot get the tank to clear up. I was told to turn off the lights (had already tried that left it off for 3 days no change). So now what? Everyone I have asked, from long timers to self proclaimed experts have never heard of a tank doing this before. The ghost shrimp in the sump seem happy, the brittle star in the sump is fine. Everything seems fine in the tank but I don't dare stick anything I care about in it for fear it will die.

The only option I feel left with at this point is a total drain and clean out which is a waste really since I had just done a major cleaning a few months back. And it's gonna take 120 gallons of salt water to refill (or there abouts including the sump).
I recently tried a water clarifying product. Nada.
Added more beneficial bacteria. Nada
Tried a carbon filter...you guessed it. NADA

So any ideas other than a total drain out? Really? Please? There HAS to be someone out there who can help me figure this out. I really hate to have to break down this tank and start over.

Anyhow. Any help, advice, or sacrificial lambs to appease the salt water gods are appreciated.

 

[heathlindner25]

Sit back,do your regular maintenance, and let your tank mature.
Its a marathon not a sprint .

 

[mcgyvr]

pics of tank to see color,etc..?

using GFO?

and yeah.. stop adding "bacteria/water" products.. No one needs those.

 

[CrayolaViolence]

Sit back,do your regular maintenance, and let your tank mature.
Its a marathon not a sprint .

This was a mature tank that I had emptied the contents of to put into a larger tank. It was not a new tank. I used the no-pox because I stirred up the substrate and all the collected garbage under the rocks.

So there is no need to let the tank mature. It should be mature. That's the problem. And this, whatever it is, isn't normal. It's not a normal "maturing stage" of a tank. I've never had an aquarium go through anything like this.

 

[CrayolaViolence]

pics of tank to see color,etc..?

using GFO?

and yeah.. stop adding "bacteria/water" products.. No one needs those.

Not sure what GFO stands for. This tank was an operational tank, with 0 issues that went up a little on the phosphates when I stirred up the substrate in my clean out. I used some no pox by red sea...yes, I probably did put too much in because I based my numbers on an API test. And the original milky cloud was a normal reaction to that. It went away...then this happened when I started to restock the tank with something else. Red Sea has no idea why it would turn brown/red. They said they get calls all the time when people OD their tanks and have never heard of this. It's most likely a bacterial bloom, that much I am sure of, the question how the hell do I get rid of it without stripping down the tank?

And I added the natural bacteria because it was proposed that perhaps all the good bacteria was killed off by the no-pox. It was just something to try. Not like it could make it worse. Trust me.

 

[mcgyvr]

GFO = granulated ferric oxide.. Used in a rector or media bag for phosphate control..
If you don't know what it is that answers if you are using it or not..

How about that picture?
Any chance is simply all the "crap" from the sand,etc.. being stirred up.?
It can be "reddish/brownish" for sure..

I'm still gonna say... let it pass.. Give it a week and report back..

And FYI.. A bacterial bloom will go away on its own (assuming you aren't feeding it more with more nopox/vinegar/vodka/carbon source..)
The bacterial quickly consumes its food and as long as you aren't continuing to feed it the bacterial bloom will clear up as there isn't enough food for it to all continue living....

 

[heathlindner25]

Well, I've had bacteria blooms last forever and the only way to get rid of them was a UV sterilizer....but I think you just need to let things settle out for few months.

 

[CrayolaViolence]

GFO = granulated ferric oxide.. Used in a rector or media bag for phosphate control..
If you don't know what it is that answers if you are using it or not..


I have never used any kind of reactor. I use de-nitrate rock bags and charcoal, a skimmer and a sump full of ghost shrimp that clean up just about everything.



How about that picture?
Any chance is simply all the "crap" from the sand,etc.. being stirred up.?


No. It isn't. Not only is the substrate not in there anymore. It was clear until I added macro algae seeded with Amphipods and Copepods.


It can be "reddish/brownish" for sure..
I'd say more red than brown. Really a GA red clay color to be exact.

I'm still gonna say... let it pass.. Give it a week and report back..


Going on 2 weeks in this condition. With no signs of change.

And FYI.. A bacterial bloom will go away on its own (assuming you aren't feeding it more with more nopox/vinegar/vodka/carbon source..)
The bacterial quickly consumes its food and as long as you aren't continuing to feed it the bacterial bloom will clear up as there isn't enough food for it to all continue living....

I only used the no pox once...never again. As for a carbon source does that included Carbon filtration? Because I do have another bag of it in the sump and have used carbon filters to try an pull (mechanically) the substance out with a filter pad.


I'm not really sure what photos are going to do. I don't have a great camera, so the color is not going to show properly. But here are some photos of the water, in a bucket (about a week ago when I was still doing water changes) and in the tank.

 

[CrayolaViolence]

The darker spots in the second photo are the rock I put back into the tank right up against the glass. That's how dense this stuff is.

 

[CrayolaViolence]

Well, I've had bacteria blooms last forever and the only way to get rid of them was a UV sterilizer....but I think you just need to let things settle out for few months.

If it was a new tank I could see waiting months. But it's not. It's a reasonably mature tank that was doing fine until I moved all the livestock out of it. Cleaned the substrate (vacuum and mechanical filter) then attempted to restock the amphipods, copepods and macro algae I'd lost in the clean up. There were still a lot in there, but I was hoping to get a really good culture of amphipods going.

 

[NS Mike D]

One thing I have learned is not to have blind faith in the tests. My tank was telling me that my API test results for NO3 and PO4 could not be correct. I switched to red seas test and sure enough I was getting materially different readings more in line with what I could observe in my tank (cyano).

test with another brand to confirm your API results or have your LFS test for you.

NoPOx is a form of carbon dosing - meant to encourage the proliferation of the bacteria that reduces nitrogen and phosphates (in multiple ways).

If you use activated carbon, that can remove the carbon of the no pox - perhaps leaving the other ingredients in the tank. Carbon dosing whether it be from no pox, vodka, bio pellets or other means can be extremely beneficially, especially at keeping a balance of nutrients that encourage either coral growth or color while keeping algae at bay. But, IMO, you really need to understand these processes and what is going on in your tank for them to be effective. Carbon dosing can take out your Nitrates faster than phosphates leading to cyano outbreaks. (which is why many use GFO in conjunction with carbon dosing regimes)

All that aside. red is usually a sign that the PO4 is out of balance. Red saltwater in nature is brown tide - caused by excessive nitrogen and phosphates. Get that second opinion on your test results. I'm not a fan of turning off the lights until you fix the long term problem - source of algae nutrients.

this very well can take a long time to fix.

 

[NS Mike D]

if your water test are correct, you may have dinoflagellates which all i know is that I am not experienced enough to provide any insights - other than they can occur in low nutrient tanks and the eradication can take months. rocks need to be cleaned, clean up crews will die from their toxins and this is a case where total darkness is necessary

red tide are dinos.

 

[CrayolaViolence]

if your water test are correct, you may have dinoflagellates which all i know is that I am not experienced enough to provide any insights - other than they can occur in low nutrient tanks and the eradication can take months. rocks need to be cleaned, clean up crews will die from their toxins and this is a case where total darkness is necessary

red tide are dinos.

Zooxanthelea are dinoflagellates, so I am sure they are in there and I would not want them to be killed off since coral need them to live. It's just that not all dinoflagellates are wanted, but it's like bacterial. If you treat with antibiotics the antibiotics doesn't discriminate. The good dies with the bad.

My local fish store used both the API and the red sea. They have not reported a difference between the two. When they have tested my water (before I bought my own kit) it was within normal parameters.

I do think the tests are reasonably accurate because they seem to go with whatever is going on with the tank. I think the red seas are easier to read for those who have a hard time seeing small differences in colors.

As I said, the no-pox ran it's course then the tank cleared. So it appeared that everything was fine. When I went to begin setting it up and put the culture of macro algae and amphipods is when it all went to hell.

 

[heathlindner25]

Whenever you start carbon dosing,you shouldn't stop.

 

[CrayolaViolence]

On with the saga of the weird water in my tank. Well, I fed the shrimp. I knew I was taking a risk adding anything to the water, but the ghost shrimp and sea star in the sump were near starving. Can you say cannibalism? I knew you could.

Well....a few hours later after dropping in just the tiniest amount of mysis shrimp...the red water was gone. It's clear now, cloudy white, but no more red. I cleaned the skimmer cup and the stuff was packed on the inside of it and really gold looking. It was weird. The skimmer is skimming, the shrimp are happy they got fed, now I just need to see if the cloudiness will go away. I added a UV pump to see if that helps. If not....I have no clue. The few coral frags I have in there don't seem to care either way. They just fluff and flow. Go figure.