Terrified after viewing STN coral tip under microscope. Help pls.

[scolley]

I've got some policipora that periodically STN on their tips, and it always recovers. They are not near each other. But a few weeks a tri-color acro STN'ed starting in center of the coral stalk. I removed it and starting this thread. IMO everything in that thread was a red herring.

But the next week a Policipora that had been next to the tri-color began to STN on the tips. I treated with superglue and hoped for the best. But today a tip of a pink Stylophora (my healthy, gorgeous pride and joy coral) next to that Policipora STN'ed too. So IMO this is not about alk spikes. This is about a spreading pathogen where proximity matters. All my other SPS appear fine.

I removed the whole Stylo branch with the STN'ed tip, and inspected with a magnifying glass. Nothing living on it that could be seen. But I put a piece of it under a microscope and was terrified. Here's what I saw:

1. Two transparent worms. About a quarter the width of a coral polyp. Attached at the base to the coral, and moving - but not to other locations.
2. Countless red dots all over the coral surface. On everything, but not completely blanketing every surface area. Size? Well you could fit 10,000 or more easily inside one coral polyp. They might have been moving, but if so it was super slow.
3. Several amoeba like things that appeared to have the aforementioned red dots inside them. They flowed slowly. One moved to a different spot and proceeded to ooze a "tendril" down into the polyp. That tendril had many 8-12 of the red dots in it. That was really the only way I could see the motion. And while it did that, other bits flowed outward away from the coral in threads that broke off and floated away. These also had the red dots in them.
4. A small colony of larger oval creatures. Did not see any appendages, but they moved very fast in and out of crevices in the coral surface. They appeared translucent. For size, I would guess about 1/50th the width of a polyp.

Does any of this relate to my pathogen? I've got something, and would love to know what.

Thanks in advance!

 

[M007]

What you are seeing could also be a natural response to a dying coral. Several different entities moving for the clean up, kinda like maggots on a piece of rotting meat? Sorry for that ugly picture but the best a layman could come up with.

 

[bskiba]

have you tried to dip it? I like the red herring comment. I wonder how many people will get that.

If it was me i would dip in revive asap and see what falls off .

 

[scolley]

What you are seeing could also be a natural response to a dying coral. Several different entities moving for the clean up, kinda like maggots on a piece of rotting meat? Sorry for that ugly picture but the best a layman could come up with.

Understood. Thanks.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. But from my response below you'll see that I could not find any larger pathogen. So I was kind of hoping that these observations would be meaningful to someone familiar with small coral pathogens, and could help.

Otherwise I've got STN spreading with no clear cause. Yes, we could discuss alk changes, but that does not explain clear proximity issues. So at the root there is something that moves from one coral to the next. And I'd like to find it.

Thanks for the feed back!

have you tried to dip it? I like the red herring comment. I wonder how many people will get that.

If it was me i would dip in revive asap and see what falls off .

I actually did that, but did not want to detract the conversation from the unknown things I found under the microscope. Here's what I did...

1. Cut the coral branch and put in a cup of tank water.
2. Looked for critters with magnifying glass. Nothing.
3. Cut the STN'ed tip off the branch and moved to a new container to be used under the microscope.
4. Put quite a bit of Interceptor (pre-ground, stirred, dissolved) in the cup with the branch.
5. Inspected every 15 minutes for 2 hours. Nothing.
6. Put a good bit of Coral RX in the cup with the branch.
7. Inspected every 15 minutes for an hour. Nothing.

And that's why I broke down and tried the microscope. I knew I would not know what I was looking at. Plus I'm not really set up to look at such big stuff. But there was nothing to be found on the branch.

Oh... if there was something big on the STN'ed tip I'd have seen it under the microscope. Anything that could have otherwise been seen with a magnifying glass would have looked to be the size of a truck.

Nope... I'm pretty sure anything on that coral is small.

Thanks!

 

[bskiba]

based on your dips it sounds like it is chemical or nutrient based. I would start there. what have you added? what are you missing.

 

[Big E]

Seeing it's a pocillipora & bird nest I doubt it's the common pests as I don't think flatworms or red bugs go for those two.

When people hear tri color they are going to immediately suggest acro flatworms like on your other thread. They are flatworm delicacies, usually first hit & eggs are seen at the base of dead areas.

Dead/decaying coral tissue landing on another coral can cause problems..........I usually just hack off the bad area. If those corals are downstream from each other it makes sense.

Keep it simple & check the basic parameters & go over any changes you may have made over the past month. This is where keeping a journal really helps........we can't possibly remember everything day to day.

I'd put the microscope away.

 

[scolley]

based on your dips it sounds like it is chemical or nutrient based. I would start there. what have you added? what are you missing.

I've got similar corals in other places in my tank. Some are even frags of the affected corals. And they are not effected, so I'm sticking with my belief that is something that spreads - that is proximity based. Thanks though.

Seeing it's a pocillipora & bird nest I doubt it's the common pests as I don't think flatworms or red bugs go for those two.

Thankd for the help Ed. But it's a Stylophora, not BN (Seriatopora). No matter though. The other is a Pollicipora. So if flatworms and redbugs don't like those, then I'm clear. And FWIW, when the tri-color went I inspected it big time with a magnifying glass, and there were plenty of critters. But I suspect they were just getting a meal of dead coral flesh. It had been STN'ing for days.

In the STN'ed piece of the Stylophora I took yesterday, it had JUST happened (within a few hours) and - no surprise - there were no critters to be found with the magnifying glass.

When people hear tri color they are going to immediately suggest acro flatworms like on your other thread. They are flatworm delicacies, usually first hit & eggs are seen at the base of dead areas.

Yea, thanks. As close as I've inspected these things, if were flatworms, I'd have seen them. Or at least bite marks.

Dead/decaying coral tissue landing on another coral can cause problems..........I usually just hack off the bad area. If those corals are downstream from each other it makes sense.

That at least explains the proximity thing. All three corals were almost in a direct line with my vortech, in this order: Vortech -> tricolor -> Pollicipora -> Stylophora. Which is the order the STN'ing has happened in. However the STN'ed tips of the Pollicipora (that I superglued) were by where the tricolor was - not on the other side by the Stylophora.

Another odd thing - should have mentioned earlier - the tip of the branch of the Stylophora that STN'ed was VERY close to the Pollicipora. Almost touching. I've been watching that spot for months as it appeared that the larger Stylo was trying to grow around the Polli without touching it. And it was the closest Stylophora tip that STN'ed.

Keep it simple & check the basic parameters & go over any changes you may have made over the past month. This is where keeping a journal really helps........we can't possibly remember everything day to day.

I do keep a detail log of everything. If it goes in the tank, if I measure it, or I observe it - then it's recorded. And my water numbers are apparently acceptable. And nothing new's going into the tank. I could publish those numbers, but honestly IMO that could lead to wild goose chases... my water is WELL within range of good SPS husbandry, and IMO there's a proximity issue that I'd like to get to the bottom of.

I'd put the microscope away.

That could be good advice. Thanks. But given that I was coming up blank of cause, i though it might tell one of our biologists out on the forum something meaningful. It's is SCARY to see all the stuff on a coral. :eek1:

Then again, I'd probably be pretty upset if I looked at a saliva sample from my mouth, or a bit of crud from under a fingernail!

Thanks for the help. :thumbsup: