Testing for Trace elements?

[Drachs]

So, how do I get precise measurements of the trace elements in my tank? I'm not saying it's something I'd want to do every week... But I find the chemistry stuff interesting and I'd like to know, for example, how my formula 28 blocks are performing.

Is there a company out there that will do these tests economically? If not, can I purchase some equipment and learn to do the tests myself?

David

 

[jansenwrasse]

There is an article by randy on trace elements, I would read that article and then decide if you want to dose any chemicals. You can make most of the commercial test kits, but they will cost you more in the initial set-up(gram scales, volumetric flasks, etc). These Items are not cheep by any measure for what they are.

Also most chemical supply houses will not sell to residential addresses, Learning to do the tests your self is a great Idea.

Testing for trace elements could wind up being very expensive in the long run. I would say ditch the trace additions and perform routine water changes, people have been successful with this routine for years.

 

[MCsaxmaster]

For most trace elements, hobbyist grade test kits wouldn't be able to come close to resolving the low concentrations. For some of the trace metal work one of my committee members used to do (so I hear) it would take 2 weeks to clean and prep the bottles properly. If anyone went near them, they would lose a hand

We can measure major ions and a handful of trace elements, but only a tiny handful.

 

[Drachs]

Btw, I'm not interested in dosing trace elements, primarily I'm interested in confirming that my water change regimine is effective and that I'm not building up anything to a level of toxicity.

I don't think I'll have a problem getting water testing chems to my work, I work for a company called "CIPAFilter" and I don't think I need to mention that we're build firewalls.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You can get tests done at www.enclabs.com but the tests cost far more than your blocks. FWIW, I do not consider them a desirable way to go. They simply dissolve and add stuff whether you need it or not (or have enough or not). I think you'd be a lot better off using a calcium and alkalinity supplement method that you can control better.

 

[Boomer]

Those blocks are not the way to go. Here is an assay of a number of tanks showing levels of TE. As you can see all tanks are way over TE levels.

Ron Shimek's Tank Water Analysis Article
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-02/rs/feature/index.htm

 

[Drachs]

Thankyou for commenting on this issue guys, I appreciate your experience and help.

I've seen enclabs in another thread, I'm sure they're a great laboratory but at $500 for a comprehensive test, too expensive for me to use regularly.

I have no illusions about the 28 blocks, I know they can't magically adjust trace element levels. I just use them to maintain calcium and alkalinity. I know that 3 blocks is enough to maintain my calcium and alkalinity in my tank, and 5 blocks doesn't cause calcium or alkalinity to rise out of range, so I keep between 3 and 5 blocks in the sump at all times and I don't have to worry about dosing a two part ever day. About once a month I end up dosing a little buffer to boost alk, but all in all everything seems good on that front.

I know several people that use these blocks with great results, including the organization that got me into reefkeeping, and though I've heard alot of people knocking them, but I've never seen any real tests.

Of course, what I don't know, is how much and what trace elements these blocks are leaching into the system. I know they're designed to leach trace elements as well as maintain calcium but I don't know how much.

I would like to be able to send a water sample to an affordable facility every month or every quarter and have an assay done of all these trace element levels so I can be confident in the usage of whatever regimen I am using, whether it's the blocks or a 2 part or a calcium reactor or whatever, and so that I can have advanced warning if a my water change regimen is not sufficient

However, there doesn't seem to be anybody servicing that niche, except for 1 company that apparently has a bad reputation (Aquariumwatertesting.com) (But I've not seen any discussion of specific problems), and I'm going to be forced to either use their service, learn to do the analysis myself, or do without.

It's frustrating, because my years of engineering experience has taught me that chemicals are always contaminated, and the only real question is what are the average levels of contamination and what are the max levels of contamination assuming everybody on the factory floor that day did what they were supposed to do.

Without a reliable means to assay the effectiveness of the different options I have selected I feel like I'm doing little more than throwing darts at product catalog.

It feels like there's an unserved niche here. It almost makes me want to start a company doing water testing for hobbiests using standard and open procedures.

David

 

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12631481#post12631481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Drachs
It feels like there's an unserved niche here. It almost makes me want to start a company doing water testing for hobbiests using standard and open procedures.

David

I'm afraid that would be a very bad idea.

Just ask AWT.

I think you are over analyzing the problem of trace elements.

Regular water changes take care of most of that as most commercial salt mixes provide all of the trace elements your tank requires.

I'll bet your tank looks great, right ?

Some reefers spend way too much time trying to provide the "perfect" environment when the water quality is already very good and only requires the regulation of the big three.

 

[KevChem]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12631481#post12631481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Drachs
It almost makes me want to start a company doing water testing for hobbiests using standard and open procedures.

David

That's what ENC has really done.

From their site:

We have developed some unique ways of overcoming many interferences from the salt matrix. Combining this with state of the art instrumentation such as Inductively Coupled Plasma Spectrometry, Atomic Absorption Spectrometry, Ion Chromatography, Voltammetry, and other electrochemical techniques, we can accurately measure many elements and ions at very low levels in seawater, salts, and brine.

An ICP runs to >$100,000, AA >$15,000, Ion Chromatograph >$20,000. That's just the capitol costs. Add in the experienced operator's salary, low-trace-metal supplies (sample holders, standards, etc) plus the method development for the salt matrix and you can see where $500 for a batch of analytes makes sense.

Kevin

 

[Drachs]

I'm confident that water changes are sufficient for replacing trace elements, what I'm worried about is removing them if they're building up. I am currently doing 5 gallons a week on a 200 gallon tank, which will only reduce a trace element surplus by 2.5% of the difference between it's current levels and the salt mix levels.

I think I just need to move to a 20 Gallon once a month regimen and cross my fingers hoping that a 10% correction each month is sufficient... But it won't give me the ability to determine the effectivness of the 28 blocks.

David