Testing of a sequence 3200 needle wheel
- Thread starter dgasmd
- Start date
spazz
New member
the 3200 motor and the dart motor are 2 totaly different motors. if you look at the way they are mounted to the wet end you will see the diffeence. they cant be interchanged. this is why the 3200 is so hard to use as a needle wheel pump. also the output of the 3200 is smaller than the dart. the one thing that should be done ot the current dart housings is to relieve all the excess plastic that is slowing down the flow inside the housing. both me and bill have done that to our pumps and have see a drastic increase in performance. its the same thing as porting and polishing a set of heads on a car motor. the votive holes are widened out to increase flow and reduce constrictionin that area of the housing.
the wattages of that dart at 176 watts is really high compared to what i was getting. i dont feel the AO Smith motors can handle the excess heat buildup form that wattage draw. even though the watage is lower than the standard 180 watts the pump runs at, its still too much drag on the motors and will cause the motor to run really hot. that will inturn increase water temps and reduce the life of the motor. also if the thermal switch kicks out then the skimmer will shut down and not restart properly. this is one problem i have not figured out yet.
the wattages of that dart at 176 watts is really high compared to what i was getting. i dont feel the AO Smith motors can handle the excess heat buildup form that wattage draw. even though the watage is lower than the standard 180 watts the pump runs at, its still too much drag on the motors and will cause the motor to run really hot. that will inturn increase water temps and reduce the life of the motor. also if the thermal switch kicks out then the skimmer will shut down and not restart properly. this is one problem i have not figured out yet.
dgasmd
New member
You are completely right about the volute in the 750 or 1000 series not being interchangable with the darts. I just saw cward's pump and noticed the motor was the same type of baldor motor as the 3200. That is why I made the comment, but I did not noticed it is missing the typical volute mounting spots that are seen on the 750 and 1000 series Baldor motors with the fins.
I also agree 100% with you and have mentioned it to sequence as far as re-shaping the volute and the output section of the volute. I did the same you and Bill did tot he 3200, but have not done it to this one they sent me. Sequence is supposed to send me 1-2 more needle wheels to try out fairly soon, so I will do it before I install the next one.
I think the difference in wattage some of us are seeing being different than what you were getting is due to the NW's weight. The NW you and Bill used (the one in my 3200 as well) are made of acrylic, which is likely very much lighter than the ones made of other materials. I think the extra drag of the pins combined with extra weight of the impeller itself adds to the heat issues and to the higher wattage consumption.
I am not quite sure what you mean by not restarting properly. One thing I did was to turn the power off completely to my pump once I was done tunning to see what would happen. Everytime the skimmer would start back up without touching it except when I was running the air just a tad below the point that the point would cavitate or burp out the air. Since then, it has started right every time. As a matter of fact, the power went out last night twice for a few minutes each time, and the skimmer was running just fine this AM when I saw it. Can you give more details as to what do you mean by not restarting properly?
I also agree 100% with you and have mentioned it to sequence as far as re-shaping the volute and the output section of the volute. I did the same you and Bill did tot he 3200, but have not done it to this one they sent me. Sequence is supposed to send me 1-2 more needle wheels to try out fairly soon, so I will do it before I install the next one.
I think the difference in wattage some of us are seeing being different than what you were getting is due to the NW's weight. The NW you and Bill used (the one in my 3200 as well) are made of acrylic, which is likely very much lighter than the ones made of other materials. I think the extra drag of the pins combined with extra weight of the impeller itself adds to the heat issues and to the higher wattage consumption.
I am not quite sure what you mean by not restarting properly. One thing I did was to turn the power off completely to my pump once I was done tunning to see what would happen. Everytime the skimmer would start back up without touching it except when I was running the air just a tad below the point that the point would cavitate or burp out the air. Since then, it has started right every time. As a matter of fact, the power went out last night twice for a few minutes each time, and the skimmer was running just fine this AM when I saw it. Can you give more details as to what do you mean by not restarting properly?
spazz
New member
what i am refering to is if the thermal protection on the dart. if it ever kicked out then the air would be running but the dart wouldnt be running. if you try this you will find that it wont start back up right. just try unplugging the dart and leave the air pump running. then plug the dart back in. it wont start properly.
spazz
New member
the problem with that ,is the pump is being run harder than it should be. pumps should be able to run continually with out extra fans hooked to it to reduce the heat levels. this is why i like the baldor motors over the AO Smith motors. i dont feel the AO Smith motors can handle the added drag of spinning that needle wheel. where the baldor is more suited for the job.
ctenophore
Premium Member
The AO Smiths work pretty well on the current NW versions. We haven't had any overheating issues since. That NW that cward has is the old style that would sometimes shut down an AO Smith.
spazz
New member
this is good to hear. but i really wish that baldor would start making that motor again. it is alot better motor in my opinion for this application. you can run bigger wheels in them with out the heat problems.
you know i never got the wheels you promised me for testing. i have 2 pumps sitting here right now that i can use for testing. 1 baldor and 1 ao smith. both are brand new pumps. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
dgasmd
New member
HUGE WORD OF CAUTION
I came home to a problem today that I want to alert others of before they go spending money like I did in a product they thought was good. I bought the air pump I am using in my current skimmer about a year ago. It is the Sweetwater SL-94 from Aquatic Ecosystems. I am sure you have all heard of the place. When I was buying my pump, I had basically narrowed it down to two choices: The pump above and the Alita pump (bigger model). Price was comparable, but the thing that differentiated them was that the Alita repair kits (diaphragms that need replacing about every 12-18 months) were hard to find and most places seemed to be out of stock at the time. I could not even find how much they cost to begin with. The Sweetwater pumps had readily available repair kits at AES for what I thought was an exorbitant amount of $75. About 3 weeks ago, I needed to replace the diaphragms as one of them broke. I ordered 2 repair kits: one to use and one to keep for future needs. The pumps started to work great again until today when I found that a diaphragm was broken again. I can see after a year, but after 2-3 weeks it is simply ridiculous. I already sent an email out to the customer service manager at AES about getting another replacement sent to me, which at the very least I expect to be free. I will let everyone know how this goes as I have found this company now to be extremely difficult to deal with in the past when it came to replacement/customer service. Maybe I have been spoiled by companies with superb customer service like PA and other, but I don't think I am out of line here. I'll let you know how this turns out.
In the meantime, I would have to say that maybe looking for alternative sources of air pumps is pretty necessary. If you can find a good source of repair kits for the Alita, I would seriously consider them before the Sweetwater any day of the week.
I came home to a problem today that I want to alert others of before they go spending money like I did in a product they thought was good. I bought the air pump I am using in my current skimmer about a year ago. It is the Sweetwater SL-94 from Aquatic Ecosystems. I am sure you have all heard of the place. When I was buying my pump, I had basically narrowed it down to two choices: The pump above and the Alita pump (bigger model). Price was comparable, but the thing that differentiated them was that the Alita repair kits (diaphragms that need replacing about every 12-18 months) were hard to find and most places seemed to be out of stock at the time. I could not even find how much they cost to begin with. The Sweetwater pumps had readily available repair kits at AES for what I thought was an exorbitant amount of $75. About 3 weeks ago, I needed to replace the diaphragms as one of them broke. I ordered 2 repair kits: one to use and one to keep for future needs. The pumps started to work great again until today when I found that a diaphragm was broken again. I can see after a year, but after 2-3 weeks it is simply ridiculous. I already sent an email out to the customer service manager at AES about getting another replacement sent to me, which at the very least I expect to be free. I will let everyone know how this goes as I have found this company now to be extremely difficult to deal with in the past when it came to replacement/customer service. Maybe I have been spoiled by companies with superb customer service like PA and other, but I don't think I am out of line here. I'll let you know how this turns out.
In the meantime, I would have to say that maybe looking for alternative sources of air pumps is pretty necessary. If you can find a good source of repair kits for the Alita, I would seriously consider them before the Sweetwater any day of the week.
