The bad luck continues

Shellyfish

Shellyfish

New member
I placed this in the reef section but realized it should probably be here:

I am one of those bad people who don't QT fish. I know I should but I'm concerned that the act of QT will be too stressful. Well now all my fish have ich. My guess is one of them brought it into the tank but no one was too stressed so they were all ok. Then my heater broke and electrocuted the tank which I'm sure was stressfull, then the die off from the electocution caused a small spike in ammonia which was also stressful.

I then noticed my mimic tang rubbing against things and on closer inspection I noticed some spots. Then I saw them on the yellow tang, and now the clowns. My cleaner wrasse seems to be spot free.

So my question is, do I leave them alone, focus on good food (soaked in garlic) and clean water. Or do I try to catch them all, put them in a QT tank and treat? If I do the QT thing I only have a 20g. The tangs are smallish but I don't know how happy they will be in there.

Thoughts? And please don't blast me for not QT'ing - I already know it was dumb
 
Leaving them alone no matter what you feed them wont rid you of the crypto. They may look better but it will still be in the system and the next time something goes wrong its going to rear up again.

20g is probably too small to qt for the time needed (6-8 weeks for your DT). You could buy a large rubbermaid tub and use that for a QT. Toss in a powerhead, some pvc elbows for hiding spots and a heater.

I wont give you any crap for not QTing. I pulled all my fish from my DT two days ago for the exact same reason. Luckily I had a spare 75g sitting around. I plan on letting it run for good after this so I can QT everything from this point on.
 
unfortunately all I have is the 20g. I did have a 30long but sold it! My only problem with the rubber maid is how to you watch them properly and know that the spots are clearing up? I only have the 5 fish and they are all pretty small still. Could I get another 10g and put some in the 3 in the 20 and 2 in the 10?
 
Shellyfish said:
I placed this in the reef section but realized it should probably be here:

I am one of those bad people who don't QT fish. I know I should but I'm concerned that the act of QT will be too stressful. Well now all my fish have ich. My guess is one of them brought it into the tank but no one was too stressed so they were all ok. Then my heater broke and electrocuted the tank which I'm sure was stressfull, then the die off from the electocution caused a small spike in ammonia which was also stressful.

I then noticed my mimic tang rubbing against things and on closer inspection I noticed some spots. Then I saw them on the yellow tang, and now the clowns. My cleaner wrasse seems to be spot free.

So my question is, do I leave them alone, focus on good food (soaked in garlic) and clean water. Or do I try to catch them all, put them in a QT tank and treat? If I do the QT thing I only have a 20g. The tangs are smallish but I don't know how happy they will be in there.

Thoughts? And please don't blast me for not QT'ing - I already know it was dumb
Click to expand...

Who cares how happy they are when the alternative is dead? IMO, if your tangs are small, your fish will be fine in a 20 gal for the treatment period. I've seen the QT area of LFS that have fish much more cramped than this for 8 weeks. The idea is to cure the ich, not give them a permanent home. Rubbermaid containers are fine for storing water, but (IMO & IME) you really have to observe fish in QT. I'd also read this excellent sticky, a good knowledge of the ich parasite and its lifestyle is vital fir any hobbyist, IMO. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985626
 
Last edited:
Shellyfish said:
unfortunately all I have is the 20g. I did have a 30long but sold it! My only problem with the rubber maid is how to you watch them properly and know that the spots are clearing up? I only have the 5 fish and they are all pretty small still. Could I get another 10g and put some in the 3 in the 20 and 2 in the 10?
Click to expand...

Crypto has a specific life cycle with known durations.

Yes you need to observe new fish that are in QT but not so much when youre actually treating them.
 
Tat2demon said:
Crypto has a specific life cycle with known durations.

Yes you need to observe new fish that are in QT but not so much when youre actually treating them.
Click to expand...

IMO, you do need to really inspect an infected/recovering fish daily. Secondary bacterial and fungal infections are very common with any parasite.
 
While I do realize that the ich is my fault and this could have been prevented. The stressful heater incident was not and I do consider it to be bad luck. I will most likely be setting up the 20g as a QT and treating the fish. I see no spots on the clowns or wrasse today but they will be treated as well. In the future my concern will be QT'ing corals so they don't bring it in, or do those coral dips work well enough?
 
If it was not for bad luck there would not be any luck!

If it was not for bad luck there would not be any luck!

Hi Shellyfish ; Just treat in what you have and you do not have to quarrantine corals but you should dip in some type of solution and check for parasites. Some refers use a solution of salt water and Iodine or Hydrogen Peroxide or coral Revive or whatever brand your LFS has on the shelf. You must treat with copper for your fish to have the best chance and the sooner the better the chances......:spin1:
 
Thanks for the link snorvich, it was a very good read. I will treat my poor fishies. I actually went out tonight to buy some pvc piping for the QT tank to give them hiding places. Unfortunately I didn't have as much luck finding cupramine.
 
draw a line on your qt/hospital 'tank' representing the 'perfect fill' at which your treatment is given. Maintain that line with topoffs 2-3x a day: it's that exacting, and an autotopoff is a big help in doing that. You need to treat EVERYBODY but the inverts and corals, and keep them in hospital for 8 weeks, no fish at all in your display tank. You can save them if you act fast.
Corals don't get ich: they have their own set of parasites that prey on corals, ergo Coral RX or some similar dip is mandatory to save you more grief. SO:
1. get those fish into hospital, and use either copper or hypo. My own favorite is hypo---because it doesn't suppress appetite and you can't od it. But do one or the other.
2. leave your main tank fishless for 8 weeks. The pest will starve out of the sandbed.
3. hereafter, always qt. It's really not cruel. It's just a period for your fish to feed without competition and adjust slowly to the bangs and thumps in your house, and for you to make a pet out of the fish. The cruelest thing is to get dumped into a strange environment under blazing light with half a dozen larger fish who think they've just been fed.
 
let me explain hypo---but bear in mind, if you choose it, you cannot do cupramine at the same time.
1. you MUST adjust the salinity meticulously to 1.009 over 48 hours. And you must hold it spot on for as long as it takes, topping off as often as possible to keep it at that fill line. Again---an ATO is an asset. If you slip up, you've just tipped the balance in favor of the ich parasite.
2. you must hold that and watch. When you see the LAST white bump and symptom leave the last fish---you start a countdown of 4 weeks in hypo, from that point.
3. once that 4 weeks is done, over 48 hours raise the salinity to match your DT. since you've had to leave it fishless for 8 weeks, you may still have some time to wait to put the fish back in.
4. once the tank is 'cured' and the fish are cured, you can put the fish on in.

Research has shown that mild hypo is actually preferable for most marine fishes: the reef exists at 1.024, but fish are quite happy and healthy at 1.022 or a little lower. So they have a natural ability to tolerate that lower salinity [good kidneys] that inverts don't have, apparently. The main things with hypo are 1) meticulous waterkeeping (you can do a partial water change at hypo salinity if you see ammonia) 2) accurate observation of the condition of the fish 3) going the full time.
 
I don't have an ATO and I'm at work all day so I'm a little hesitant to do the hypo. I've used copper in the past with great results. At the moment the fish are all eating like pigs so at least they will have the nutrition they need. There aren't a lot of saltwater shops in my area and the one I usually go to is closed for tonight so I'm going to try to get there tomorow so I can start treating asap. Of course catching the fish will be easier said than done. And yes I will be qt'ing future fish. What about crabs/snails? Do you quarantine those as well? And can the corals carry ich into your tank? I'm assuming any dip that is safe to use on corals would not be effective against ich.
 
Actually, coral dip will probably get any invert. And ich is an invert.
Crabs and snails are inverts, and are immune to ich.
Dragonets are virtually immune to ich but should NOT be left in a tank that is being fishless. You have to set up a separate tank with cheato and sand for them.

I'd suggest an ATO would be a good investment: stable water helps bolster your fishes' defenses.
 
Sorry for the hijack, but could you share what kind of heater it was that broke on you? By the way, Sk8r is giving you good advice. Good Luck with your fish and I hope they pull through!
 
Yes and I appreciate the advice! The last thing I want to do is lose my fish. As for the heater it was a visitherm.

Ok, so I will be investing in a coral dip. Now what about shrimp/snails and hermits? I know that don't actually get ich, but I'm assuming they can carry it in to the tank. Do you QT them? And if so, after I treat my fish and clean out the 20g really well will I be able to QT them in there? Or will there be residual copper?

And leaving the display fishless for 8 weeks, I've heard conflicting things about this, some people have said that 8 weeks is not long enough?

Thanks so much for the help so far guys, I really appreciated you helping me out, especially since this could have been avoided!
 
Shellyfish said:
While I do realize that the ich is my fault and this could have been prevented. The stressful heater incident was not and I do consider it to be bad luck. I will most likely be setting up the 20g as a QT and treating the fish. I see no spots on the clowns or wrasse today but they will be treated as well. In the future my concern will be QT'ing corals so they don't bring it in, or do those coral dips work well enough?
Click to expand...

I've often wondered the same thing. Here's what SeaChem, maker of "Reef Dip" says, I've always found their tech support to be excellent: "I am not sure, some of the coral pest that Reef Dip will kill are pretty tough. Unfortunately we have not done research on it's effects on crypto. Probably the best thing would be to quarantine the coral for a couple of months. I know this does not sound appealing but it would ensure that any cyst that my have been present would have burst and the free-swimming form would die from lack of a host. "
 
Well the fishies are all in the QT and I've added the copper (2ml in a 20g), everyone seems fine. The mimic has already claimed one of the pvc pipes as his and both tangs didn't hesitate to help themselves to the nori.
 
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