The "best" new fish/quarantine methods...?

[Salty150]

I was wondering what everyone's input was as far as the "best" (notice it is in quotes) new fish/quarantine method.

I know there is the TTM - but what would some others be.

I like this one somewhat - step-by-step:

1. Freshwater dip
2. Acriflavine OR Formalin dip
3. Then transfer into hypo-salinity hospital tank with ParaGuard OR PraziPro Or...
4. Wait 30 days

 

[HumbleFish]

Here is one I am working on:

- New fish is treated for 10 consecutive days with either CP or copper at therapeutic levels (very important).

- On Days 1, 3, 7 & 9; I dose 75 mg praziquantel powder and 250 mg metronidazole powder in order to deworm, and prophylactically address the possibility of brook/uronema. This same formulation can be achieved by just using "API General Cure". I've had too many interaction issues (bacterial blooms) when combining liquid Prazipro with CP.

- IF a bacterial infection pops up, I've been able to add nitrofurazone (Furan-2) or kanamycin (Kanaplex) to the mix without issue.

I purposely seek out fish with ich, velvet, brook, uronema, flukes, intestinal worms to test this 10 day protocol out on. So far, so good. Of course, being I only experiment using sick fish not all of them make it. The fish with velvet, for example, almost always require a FW dip & chemical bath before going thru the 10 day treatment. And sometimes I have had to continue antibiotic treatment in the observation tank for lingering infections.

But after 10 days, any parasites should have dropped off the fish and are left behind in the treatment tank. The presence of CP/copper shields the fish from reinfection, and you just do a "tank transfer" after 10 days to a whole new QT (nothing gets reused from the original treatment tank.)

So far, no recurrence of any diseases (save lingering bacterial infections) once transferred to the observation tank and all is well with them in my DT as well. But experimentation continues .....

 

[krullshards]

During the treatment period, since you are using an essentially new hospital/quarantine environment, how do you deal with ammonia? Large water changes? Adding starter bacteria? Prime?

Ammonia spikes are my biggest concerns with TTM.

 

[snorvich]

Here is one I am working on:

- New fish is treated for 10 consecutive days with either CP or copper at therapeutic levels (very important).

I do not agree that CP or copper should be used prophylactically. Ten days is not long enough in any case. I discourage copper usage.

- On Days 1, 3, 7 & 9; I dose 75 mg praziquantel powder and 250 mg metronidazole powder in order to deworm, and prophylactically address the possibility of brook/uronema. This same formulation can be achieved by just using "API General Cure". I've had too many interaction issues (bacterial blooms) when combining liquid Prazipro with CP.

- IF a bacterial infection pops up, I've been able to add nitrofurazone (Furan-2) or kanamycin (Kanaplex) to the mix without issue.

I purposely seek out fish with ich, velvet, brook, uronema, flukes, intestinal worms to test this 10 day protocol out on. So far, so good. Of course, being I only experiment using sick fish not all of them make it. The fish with velvet, for example, almost always require a FW dip & chemical bath before going thru the 10 day treatment. And sometimes I have had to continue antibiotic treatment in the observation tank for lingering infections.

But after 10 days, any parasites should have dropped off the fish and are left behind in the treatment tank. The presence of CP/copper shields the fish from reinfection, and you just do a "tank transfer" after 10 days to a whole new QT (nothing gets reused from the original treatment tank.)

So far, no recurrence of any diseases (save lingering bacterial infections) once transferred to the observation tank and all is well with them in my DT as well. But experimentation continues .....

 

[snorvich]

I was wondering what everyone's input was as far as the "best" (notice it is in quotes) new fish/quarantine method.

I know there is the TTM - but what would some others be.

I like this one somewhat - step-by-step:

1. Freshwater dip which accomplishes what??
2. Acriflavine OR Formalin dip
3. Then transfer into hypo-salinity hospital tank with ParaGuard OR PraziPro Or... why hyposalinity??
4. Wait 30 days 30 days is not long enough

Didn't you already ask this in a similar thread?

 

[HumbleFish]

During the treatment period, since you are using an essentially new hospital/quarantine environment, how do you deal with ammonia? Large water changes? Adding starter bacteria? Prime?

Ammonia spikes are my biggest concerns with TTM.

Seeded bio-media (Aquaclear HOB sponges) are used in both tanks. Ammonia is never a concern this way.

 

[krullshards]

Seeded bio-media (Aquaclear HOB sponges) are used in both tanks. Ammonia is never a concern this way.

Ahh, ok, so you are just transferring the one time at the end, correct? I imagine for TTM treatment of ich, it'd be harder or you'd have to have a bunch more sponges ready to go, because you have to sterilize and dry the sponge in the previous tank once you've transferred the fish, right?

Maybe I need to read the 40 something pages in the TTM thread. sigh.

 

[Deinonych]

Ahh, ok, so you are just transferring the one time at the end, correct? I imagine for TTM treatment of ich, it'd be harder or you'd have to have a bunch more sponges ready to go, because you have to sterilize and dry the sponge in the previous tank once you've transferred the fish, right?

Maybe I need to read the 40 something pages in the TTM thread. sigh.

As long as you are only treating 1-2 (preferably small) fish at a time with TTM, ammonia is not a problem. I usually add some Prime at the end of the second day just to be safe, but the fish isn't in each transfer tank long enough for ammonia to be a concern. I suppose you could use new media with each transfer, or add media + a bacteria starter, but that's a lot of work for little (if any) gain.

 

[krullshards]

How often are you feeding during TTM?

 

[HumbleFish]

Ahh, ok, so you are just transferring the one time at the end, correct? I imagine for TTM treatment of ich, it'd be harder or you'd have to have a bunch more sponges ready to go, because you have to sterilize and dry the sponge in the previous tank once you've transferred the fish, right?

Maybe I need to read the 40 something pages in the TTM thread. sigh.

Yes, my experimental treatment is 10 days in chemicals and then transfer the fish (and the fish only.)

For TTM, you don't need a bio-filter because ammonia won't build up in just 72 hrs. Or as Deinonych pointed out, you always have the option of dosing an ammonia reducer. When I do TTM I keep it as simple as possible: heater/thermometer, air stone, and a PVC elbow for the fish to hide in. Less to clean that way, less chance for cross contamination.

 

[Deinonych]

How often are you feeding during TTM?

I try to get the fish eating pellets before I start TTM. Then feed once or twice a day depending on the fish. With pellets, portion control is much easier, and uneaten portions are easy to siphon up.

 

[BCool]

This is what I am thinking:
1. dip the fish in paraguard
2. tank transfer with prazi treatment during transfers
3. observe last tank trasfer for 7 days

What about that scenario, shouldn't that catch most common problems?

 

[snorvich]

This is what I am thinking:
1. dip the fish in paraguard
2. tank transfer with prazi treatment during transfers
3. observe last tank trasfer for 7 days

What about that scenario, shouldn't that catch most common problems?

No. Observe for a total of at least 5 weeks AFTER THE LAST TRANSFER.

 

[snorvich]

Maybe I need to read the 40 something pages in the TTM thread. sigh.

Try this first.

 

[BCool]

Curious why 5 weeks observation? What makes that a magic number?

 

[scooter31707]

Because TTM is only good for Ich and PP is only good for flukes. It does not treat for anything else which can show it's ugly head after 2-3 weeks. It's common that most LFS treat with cooper which is known to mask other diseases. After the fish is out of the cooper for some time, that's when other diseases will show their symptoms. If nothing shows within 5 weeks, it's a safe bet the fish is good to go.

 

[BCool]

Great info here, I think formalin was suggested for the initial dip, not paraguard that put above.

 

[krullshards]

Try this first.

Thanks for the link Snorvich!

 

[snorvich]

Because TTM is only good for Ich and PP is only good for flukes. It does not treat for anything else which can show it's ugly head after 2-3 weeks. It's common that most LFS treat with cooper which is known to mask other diseases. After the fish is out of the cooper for some time, that's when other diseases will show their symptoms. If nothing shows within 5 weeks, it's a safe bet the fish is good to go.

Exactly.

 

[microlady]

Curious why 5 weeks observation? What makes that a magic number?

I had a wipeout due to velvet (most likely) after I quarantined new arrivals for three weeks. :headwalls: