The Definative Miracle Mud Thread

[mattsilvester]

I posted this in the general forum also, however in anticipation of overwhelming negative nay-sayer responses (from those that have no even seriously considred it let alone tried it) I thought perhaps folks here on the "advanced" board may have some relavent input - be it positive or negative.

I would like to try and establish for a fact if a tank can be run, long term, well stocked, without a skimmer, using this system alone. PLEASE â€"œ I would respectfully ask that unless you PERSONALLY have used it, DO NOT REPLY to this post.

In short, it would be a great reference for anyone thinking of using it it if those that have used it could answer the following brief questions:

1. Did you use the product in the way it was described that you should?

2. Briefly, how was your tank stocked, and how big was it i.e. 120 gal well stock sps reef / 240 gal FOWLR etc.

3.What were your results? i.e. good, bad, or otherwise.

4. If you are still using it, how long has your system been running, and have you had any problems?

5. If you have stopped using it, why?

6. Would you recommend using it?

Just to re-iterate, if you have not personally used the stuff, please do not reply. We all know that 90% of people THINK it is nonsense (I am possibly one of them) but we all know that 90% of people have NOT EVEN TRIED it. I am looking for definitive accounts of experience, not “my buddy used it and it was crap”.

Many thanks for reading.

 

[Randall_James]

I have used MM and a number of other products as well on 75-120G reef tanks (mainly SPS).

The MM had the consistency of dirt out of my backyard ( East Mesa AZ, back yard was virgin desert). I only used it on one 75G SPS tank

It looked literally like desert dirt with about the same amount of dust, small rock and sand.

Does it work.... well that depends on what "Works" part of all the hoopla you are talking about..

LLE on fish? no idea, never had any but I could see no difference in any of the products (and some such as MM are pretty pricey) over 5 or 6" of plain old aragonite sand in the sump.

Would I purchase again? doubtful

 

[washingtond]

1. Did you use the product in the way it was described that you should?
Yes for the first 3 years on a tank that has been setup for just over 6 years. Then I added an Aqua C Skimmer.

2. Briefly, how was your tank stocked, and how big was it i.e. 120 gal well stock sps reef / 240 gal FOWLR etc.
75 gal stocked with LPS/Soft corals and 4 fish (clowns that spawn once a month)

3.What were your results? i.e. good, bad, or otherwise.
Very good

4. If you are still using it, how long has your system been running, and have you had any problems?
The tank has been setup for 6 and half years without any major problems, the corals show tremendous growth with hundreds of pods in the Ecosystem.

5. If you have stopped using it, why?
Have not stopped using but do not change out the Mud as recommended by the manufacture.

6. Would you recommend using it?
It seems to work but the cost of the Mud is too high. I would recommend if you could get the Mud for half of the list price.

SECOND TANK:

1.Did you use the product in the way it was described that you should?
No using a skimmer and a customer Sump/Fuge. The fuge does use MM.

2. Briefly, how was your tank stocked, and how big was it i.e. 120 gal well stock SPS reef / 240 gal FOWLR etc.
200 gal SPS reef with 11 fish.

3.What were your results? i.e. good, bad, or otherwise.
Very good results as the tank is thriving.

4. If you are still using it, how long has your system been running, and have you had any problems?
A year and a half without any major problems including no hair algae from day one but did use Tampa Bay Live Rock that was fully cured before setting the tank. Cannot say that it was because it used MM.

5. If you have stopped using it, why?
Still using the MM.

6. Would you recommend using it?
If they could get the mud for half the list price I cannot say that it is any better then using a deep sand bed.

 

[mattsilvester]

Thanks for the replies folks.

Thanks David - exactly what I was looking for. In summary, you would recommend it (cost aside) just you would recommend using a skimmer with it?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[washingtond]

Yes I could with a skimmer.

 

[humbugy]

california hill dirt......

 

[Dell2go]

I would stick to the norm. If it works why change.

 

[gusman4]

1. Did you use the product in the way it was described that you should?
pretty much ive got the MM with some marco algae, live rock, in a 40 gallon refugium i also have the aqua C remora pro skimmer hooked up but dont run all the time.

2. Briefly, how was your tank stocked, and how big was it i.e. 120 gal well stock sps reef / 240 gal FOWLR etc.
I have a 120 gallon mixed reef SPS,LPS and some zoas. Two perc clowns, one 3inch regal tang, four chromis, flame hawk, yellow coris wrasse(not really a coris),coral beauty, midas blenny, 4inch sargassum trigger, pistol shrimp and banded shrimp goby. hermits, couple of shrimp, tiger tail cucumber, couple of fighting conchs.
tank also has 100lbs live rock and 4.5 inch deep sand bed.

3.What were your results? i.e. good, bad, or otherwise.
results have been great. all corals are growing very quickly, great polyp extention. all fish are fat and healthy. had one small red slime outbreak on sand bed added more flow and went right away. i suppliment with 2part and do a 20percent water chance about every month.

4. If you are still using it, how long has your system been running, and have you had any problems?
still using it and have been up and running about a year.

5. If you have stopped using it, why?\
still using it.


6. Would you recommend using it?
i would highly recommend it. i have not had one major problem and everything is running great.

 

[fugu07]

Hi, Im using MM in a 150g tank for soft corals and fish.
the tank has been running only 6 months and is being stocked slowly to accommodate financing. the project is very much an experiment as i am using a small skimmer, mangroves and cheato algae. the refugium is seperate to the main sump that holds skimmer and return pump, The fuge is a tall tank holding 15lbs of MM
and two mangroves and the cheato!

1. Did you use the product in the way it was described that you should?.....No!

2. Briefly, how was your tank stocked, and how big was it
150g 4 medium fish Tang, Foxface, Fairy wrasse, Copperband butterfly. Two cleaner shrimp. A few leather toadstools, pulse corals, sinularia and button polyps all small frags except the toadstools and all spreading nicely with good polyp extension!

3.What were your results?
Results are mainly good although i do have 20ppm nitrates and a brown slimy, possibly diatom algae which has lasted 6weeks now.
i will say, that i do believe my refugium is too small so am building a new sump/ fuge system to tripple its current size. Evident because of the amount of nitrates in the system, i strongly believe that the MM method should put a halt to skimming and create a more balanced system, Heavy skimming takes too much out of the water and then requires spending more money too replace everything you skim out!

4. If you are still using it, how long has your system been running, and have you had any problems?
Only problem in last 6 months is the brown stuff on the live and substrate although it does not grow in Fuge! Just adding more flow and reducing flow rate in display, Will post results in thread.

5. If you have stopped using it, why?\
still using it. I am still skimming 3/4 days a week as fuge needs some extending.



6. Would you recommend using it?
I think this is the way forward for low cost, low maintenance tanks
The science works and ive seen what can be acheived using this method, If you follow the basic principles of the method then... Happy days,

 

[Malenurse]

MM in 14" refugium?

MM in 14" refugium?

I have a 32 gallon reef and just purchased a 14" HOB combo refugium and skimmer - obviously not much room for mud (approx 8"x4"x4" assuming a 4" bed). Any opinions whether mud would be a good idea or not? What about products other than MM - Carib Sea mud, etc.? Seachem also sales a non-organic version of "mud" - supposedly leaches out trace minerals, CA+, etc. in the same manner without the mess or risaks of adding organic materials. I notice that simple sand beds, coral pieces, etc. alone seem to be popular in refugia as well. Any ideas?

 

[Randall_James]

I for one do not see how you could tell if this stuff does any good or not. I have run reef tanks with and without, frankly I saw no advantage either way. Water changes I think are a better option to keep trace minerals up to snuff. If you drive out to say Ellsworth road and say Goldmine road (about half way to Canyon lake) you will find what appears to be very similar dirt I lived off 96th street and Ellsworth for many years

I think your move for reef rubble will show more benefit for pods to feed off of and around than any MM bottom. Oh and BTW
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

 

[Nanook]

I don't have any personal experience with MM, but I have seen a few tanks that use it in the sumps, or as a hang-on fuge with MM that have looked fantastic. Not sure what it is in the mud, but I do think it yields positive results.

 

[mattsilvester]

Well thanks for all the replies here folks.

What I can gather from this thread is that long term users of the "system" opt to use a skimmer (to a varying degree) in addition.

To me, what that represents is a general opinion that while the "eco system" method works well as a refugium, it does not fullfill it promise, as promoted by the manufacturer i.e. skimmerless tank, and hence is not the "complete filteration system" that it is made out to be.

Is that a fair synopsis?

 

[washingtond]

IMHO yes.