The Frogfish Files

[uberfugu]

Looks like a pictus ... could be a commerson. Commerson's illiciums aren't usually that long but they are variable. Pictus is most likely in your area (Asia). Wartskin will have a very different 2nd spine.

Best differentiation between pictus and commerson will be fin-ray counts:

Anal fin: pictus - 6-7; commerson - 8
pectoral fin: pictus - usually 10; commerson - usually 11
dorsal fin: pictus - usually 12; usually 13

the commerson will also grow to three time the size of the pictus

Nevertheless, cool fish

 

[Drewcipher]

All of a sudden it dies. 6 months and a couple days after we got our histrio histrio. Even after reading that this happens it surprised me. He was eating, and would always come out and swim with my cleaning magnet. When I do a water change he would often come and perch on my hand. Then...no more. We are very sad, he was really a great fish. Hope everyone else is doing ok. I really wish I could have revived this thread with pictures of him hanging around and not bad news. I wish I could educate or warn you what might have happened, to my water or whatever, but it was a complete surprise to me. Not sure what to think or do.

 

[Reefcherie]

I'm sorry to hear about your loss Drewcipher.... loss of a seemingly healthy angler after 6 months, 9 months or even a year is not that uncommon. I suspect if we had someone who was an expert in angler physiology do a dissection each time perhaps we'd get a clue as to what is going on...

I'll ask my standard questions, just to gather data - what were you feeding your frogfish? What size? How often? Were there any recent behavioral or physical changes that you noticed?

 

[Drewcipher]

Damsels are my food of choice, but when he couldn't catch one for a while I would throw in a molly. Always made sure he ate at least once per week, but usually got something about every 5 days or so. Generally the size was about 3/4 his length. No changes in behavior. He was always funny because he was not a patient fish. Rarely did he sit and ambush his prey. Since day 1 he would chase his prey around the tank, which was rather funny to watch. He had grown quite a bit in the 6 months and seemed fine. I am thinking I want to try again, but might want to make some tank changes first. Another point of interest is that he was never the least bit interested in eating shrimp. There have been 2 peppermints in there from day 1 (had some aiptasia at startup) He was plenty big enough to eat them, and came face to face with them regularly, but no desire to feed.

 

[Reefcherie]

Another point of interest is that he was never the least bit interested in eating shrimp. There have been 2 peppermints in there from day 1 (had some aiptasia at startup) He was plenty big enough to eat them, and came face to face with them regularly, but no desire to feed.

That sort of makes sense to me. A Sargassum angler would spend its life in the column in and on top of the Sargassum macro algae. I don't know how many shrimp hang out up there. My A. pictus is just the opposite. He will only eat fish if desperate. He loves shrimp. Interestingly enough, the motion of his lure does attract the shrimp I give him, whereas when he lures for the marine feeders I get, they quickly swim away in fear of it.

 

[OoVWoO]

On a slightly related note (as I dont yet have experience with frogfishes), would one fare well with a small Scorpion Leaffish? Right now I've got this little 1" Leaffish in an Eclipse six while waiting on my 24g Nanocube to come in. I figured I'd either order another 1 or 2 Leaf's to complete the tank, or keep him in there with a FrogFish, if compatable. Any suggestions?

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Wow, bummer. Sorry for your loss

 

[uberfugu]

On a slightly related note (as I dont yet have experience with frogfishes), would one fare well with a small Scorpion Leaffish? Right now I've got this little 1" Leaffish in an Eclipse six while waiting on my 24g Nanocube to come in. I figured I'd either order another 1 or 2 Leaf's to complete the tank, or keep him in there with a FrogFish, if compatable. Any suggestions?

I think there'd be little danger of an angler eating a leaf scorpion as long as the scorpion was bigger than the froggie. There is the possibility of envenomation by the scorpion. Although many seem to think that anglers are passive, I've seen very strong displays of aggression towards other fishes including other anglers. I've even had an angler kill a smaller angler by head-butting him around the tank.

I'm still in favor of a species-only for frogfishes. With the variety of leaf scorpionfish colors and patterns available, I think a leaf scorpion species-only tank would be quite spectacular.

 

[smoke15]

I had a brilliant greenish-yellow one that I bought at about 3/4" long. Unfortunately, like many anglers, he turned brownish grey to match the live-rock
Anyway to "reverse" the brownish gray color change?

 

[Newflee]

Some have suggested that adding a sponge of your color chice might help but I have had no luck.
My "meatball" died recently from drying out after a tank rupture. He was a pictus and I never had any problem with him eating the head half of a frozen sardine. I had him for over a year...maybe close to two, and would have been for many more years I'm sure if not for the dryout.

Seems the key is a tall, species only tank with large bi-weekly feedings.

 

[Reefcherie]

I had a brilliant greenish-yellow one that I bought at about 3/4" long. Unfortunately, like many anglers, he turned brownish grey to match the live-rock
Anyway to "reverse" the brownish gray color change?

Fuggly, my A. pictus, has had many color changes in response to whatever I've done with his/her tank. He has been bright red, dark black, reddish orange, salmon, bright yellow and is now a greenish yellow w/ pink coralline-looking patches. The latest color appears to be his best attempt to turn green to match the Chaetomorpha ball he's so fond of hanging upside down from.

It appears certain species of angler are much more prone to color changes than others and I suspect the ability varies between individuals as well. Unless you have the right environment to support a brightly colored sponge, my advice is not to try to go that route. It is unfair to the sponge and possibly problematic to your water quality if the sponge starts dying.

I've thought about trying some of the new brightly colored artificial corals that are now for sale to see if I could encourage a color change. If your angler is like mine, he'll rotate ambush positions throughout the day, so you'd want all his favorite spots to be the same color you were trying to encourage for your best shot at a color change. Tank background can matter as well. My juvenile went from bright red to dark black quite rapidly because he was being held in a small critter keeper inside my 180, right up against the black back wall.

 

[Reefcherie]

Some have suggested that adding a sponge of your color chice might help but I have had no luck.
My "meatball" died recently from drying out after a tank rupture. He was a pictus and I never had any problem with him eating the head half of a frozen sardine. I had him for over a year...maybe close to two, and would have been for many more years I'm sure if not for the dryout.

Seems the key is a tall, species only tank with large bi-weekly feedings.

Newflee - sorry to hear about the demise of Meatball and your tank rupture!

I'm curious why you believe a frogfish tank should be "tall."

 

[Newflee]

Reefcherie,
I guess I wouldn't want to overemphasize the tall tank theory because it is anecdotal, but after keeping my pictus in several tanks I found that he seemed to like the tall tank the most. One consideration for me was that because he needed his own tank, the tall offered more useable room for him as I found he moved up and down the vertical coral/ rockwork. When in a standard type tank he seemed to move around less. I'm assuming that moving around is a good thing here and since I couldn't ask him, I'm guessing that he enjoyed the tall better. He also fed more readily in the tall but that could be for any number of other factors.
Clearly a large tank is not needed as Meatball never lived in a tank larger than 5 gallons except for the experimental period that he lived in my reef. This was an expensive experiment that my ornamental shrimp would have rather not experienced. Actually I'm sure that was Meatballs favorite home untill he ran out of shrimp.

 

[uberfugu]

New little Antennatus tuberosus. Little fellow comes out of Hawaii. Living in a little minibow for the time being.

 

[Newflee]

VBery nice.

 

[Reefcherie]

Awesome! I haven't seen that species before and am out of town so no access to Scott Michael's book...how big do they get? I heard there is a dwarf frogfish that lives in Hawaii and am wondering if this is it.

How big is it now?

 

[uberfugu]

The Dwarf Hawaiian frogfish is usually Antennarius randalli. It gets to about 3 cm long and its most prominent characteristic is that its second spine is connected to the dorsal by a membrane. I've never seen one for sale.

Antennatus tuberosus is pretty rare too. I tried to get one out of a Canadaidn LFS but the paperwork was too involved. This one came in as a pair bit I lost the other. It has a much wider range than the Randalls frog but is very uncommon and usually found at depths (this one was collected at 120 ft). The tuberculated frogfish gets to about 3" and is characterised by a minimal or absent esca.

He is in a 5 gal minibow, 75Ã"šÃ‚ºF, sal 30 (1.022), pH 8, 25% w/c weekly, HOB filter with polyfilter, phosban, and de-nitrate. He eats a few ghost shrimp twice weekly.

Fishbase

 

[uberfugu]

How big is it now?

He's is around 1-1/2" (3-4cm)

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Nice!

You're moving him from the minibow after a while? What kind of setup will he be in?

 

[uberfugu]

Nice!

You're moving him from the minibow after a while? What kind of setup will he be in?

Don't know yet. BTW - Norman, you missed the brown one at New Alameda. I had to pick him up to keep the orange fellow happy: