so recently over the past few months, some of my zoa/paly frags have basically come loose from thier bases. one at a time they just start to wiggle and eventually fall off. they are not dying, not melting, just coming apart. i now refrag the ones that start this and they live fine. what is causing this?
the great escape??
- Thread starter phillipFL
- Start date
A. Grandis
Active member
This is the first time I've seen anyone here post that type of episode, and it will probably be a very interesting thread, if people participate!!!!!!!!!
I have couple of things in mind, regarding of why that happens, but I still can't see the whole picture, or know for sure why. I feel there is a very simple answer though, but...
For now, I would prefer to wait and see what people has to say and I'll be following this thread!!!!!
The more posts here the better!!!!:thumbsup:
phillipFL:
Why do you think that happened?
Please let us know all about your system and possible changes around the event, would you? You could start answering:
1) pH.
2) Alkalinity.
3) Calcium.
4) Magnesium.
5) Specific gravity.
6) Temperature.
7) Phosphates.
8) Water flow.
9) Lights and photoperiod.
10) Target feeding the zoas? What and how often?
11) Tank size.
12) Skimmer?
13) Activated carbon?
14) GFO?
15) Additives and how often.
16) Checked for any predators or anything around the polyps?
You guys can already tell how much I am interested in this topic!!! :spin3:
Grandis.
I have couple of things in mind, regarding of why that happens, but I still can't see the whole picture, or know for sure why. I feel there is a very simple answer though, but...
For now, I would prefer to wait and see what people has to say and I'll be following this thread!!!!!
The more posts here the better!!!!:thumbsup:
phillipFL:
Why do you think that happened?
Please let us know all about your system and possible changes around the event, would you? You could start answering:
1) pH.
2) Alkalinity.
3) Calcium.
4) Magnesium.
5) Specific gravity.
6) Temperature.
7) Phosphates.
8) Water flow.
9) Lights and photoperiod.
10) Target feeding the zoas? What and how often?
11) Tank size.
12) Skimmer?
13) Activated carbon?
14) GFO?
15) Additives and how often.
16) Checked for any predators or anything around the polyps?
You guys can already tell how much I am interested in this topic!!! :spin3:
Grandis.
ok, ill work on the list, but can rule alot out.. my water is perfect, i check it, and let 4 lfs check it. flow.. they are on 2 frag racks on the front corners of my tank, and would say the flow is just enough to keep the palys gently flowing, basically my growout area. lighting is t5's 4x39's ( 2 460's, 1 420, 1 10k). tank is 48 bowfront or whatever, skimmer is a tiny p-.o.s. my wife wanted, a nano airstone, but actually works well so cant say too much about it. dont run anything in the tank.water changes every friday, 10g. no predators, lots more corals all over.
now after all that i realise 2 things i messed up on my first post..
1. it is only palys, not zoas also.
2. this happens basically within a week of me getting the new frags. the rest of the tank is fine, runs like clockwork. its just on new frags. so i guess that wouldve skipped the whole "how is the tank running" but i know thats the first questions anyways
so in short.. i buy a small frag of maybe 5-10 heads.. withing a week they start to dance around then go swimming on thier own... if i catch them, find them, or re-glue them, they live happy lives.
now after all that i realise 2 things i messed up on my first post..
1. it is only palys, not zoas also.
2. this happens basically within a week of me getting the new frags. the rest of the tank is fine, runs like clockwork. its just on new frags. so i guess that wouldve skipped the whole "how is the tank running" but i know thats the first questions anyways
so in short.. i buy a small frag of maybe 5-10 heads.. withing a week they start to dance around then go swimming on thier own... if i catch them, find them, or re-glue them, they live happy lives.
why do i think they do it...
1, the glue is toxic that my lfs uses, but doubt it since there are 2 marine biologists that run it.
2. could they be separating from thier base from being unhappy from either water/lighting/flow and actually trying to drift off for a happier area?
other than that, no idea
1, the glue is toxic that my lfs uses, but doubt it since there are 2 marine biologists that run it.
2. could they be separating from thier base from being unhappy from either water/lighting/flow and actually trying to drift off for a happier area?
other than that, no idea
kichimark
Μολὼν λαβ
Warning....only my opinions, take it for what its worth.
Just because they are marine biologist doesn't mean they know everything (not trying to be disrespectful). How many times have doctors been wrong?What is this glue you mention? Is it 100% cyanoacrylate?
I have seen some reefers not properly glue the polyps and they eventually fall off, possibly from the polyps creating a slime coat to deal with the irritant. This is why it is so much better to frag zoas/paly's with a bit of rock attached at the base since it not only reduces some stress but acts as a firm anchor with the glue and plug.
The ONLY time I have seen polyps come off was 2 years ago when my mother passed away and I had no time for my tank. I lost my full colonies of Utter Chaos's and Space Monsters and half of everything else. I remember seeing when some of the UC started melting, there was one example of a healthy one in the middle but surrounded by unhealthy ones and it came off. I hypothesize the surrounding unhealthy polyps perhaps weakened the other polyp to some degree or made it aware of the situation and caused it to have a flight response for its survival. Ofcourse this is just me theorizing and does not mean that actually happened.
I have zoas that do this every now and then. Ive just come to the conclusion that in the flow they slowly pull up and break away. ive always just reglued em somewhere. havent lost any of my colonies but keep a close eye on it if it becomes excessive look to heavy metal leaching into the tank somehow or hi po4
A. Grandis
Active member
Tagging along.....
lostintheocean
New member
does the base look damaged? I has a huge colony that the bases started looking almost rotten and they would then blow off the rock. It was like a wave that swept over the colony from one end to another and only affected one type. I reattached some of the ones that detached but they did not make it. Several survived this epidemic and they have since started multiplying. The colony was at lease a few hundred and is now back up to maybe 20. I could never figure it out.
I hope it is not something similar.
I hope it is not something similar.
colonies are ok, just the new frags. and from what ive noticed, there was no patern, side to side or inside out or anything. cant really comment on the bases. but i did get 2 frags yesterday from the same place, but both are zoas, so will keep an extremly close eye on them.
A. Grandis
Active member
By what phillipFL wrote on the first post it is probably the very same thing that happened in your tank!!
Would you please let us know any info about your tank of when that happened?
Any sudden changes or anything special that you remember?
It's terrible when that happens!!! You don't see any predators, most of the time there was no changes nor any serious chemical imbalance that you can think of. Sometimes that happens when most of the zoas are doing so great and looking amazing, but that particular colony just keep detaching from the rock until it decides to stop. And there is basically NOTHING you can do!!! It does what it does, no matter what.
Often there are those few polyps left on the rock and they begin to reproduce like nothing happened.
Total mystery!!!!!!!
I would like to hear from others as well...
Perhaps someone already know what causes that?!?!
Please let us know what you think.
Grandis.
lostintheocean
New member
There were no changed to my tank when I started loosing this colony. I have a 72 bowfront with 20 long sump filled with softies, gorgs and zoas. I never found any predators or anything like that. Same fish were in there prior to the crash of the colony. I fragged a couple of the polyps and moved them but had no luck with that. There were some hydroids in and around them but the have been there and are throughout my tank and are still present now that the polyps are growing back.
It seemed like a wave of some killer ....fungus, bacteria, something, swept across the colony from front to back. The colony covered two rocks about 10 inches wide and 8 inches deep. The one polyp in the front that survives is now up to 7 polyps in the past few months and there a re few babies popping up in the back section as well.
Below is a picture of a frag of the polyps. This was a frag I made long before the die off.
It seemed like a wave of some killer ....fungus, bacteria, something, swept across the colony from front to back. The colony covered two rocks about 10 inches wide and 8 inches deep. The one polyp in the front that survives is now up to 7 polyps in the past few months and there a re few babies popping up in the back section as well.
Below is a picture of a frag of the polyps. This was a frag I made long before the die off.
Attachments
A. Grandis
Active member
Those are probably Palythoa spp., as for recent studies (formally known as Protopalythoa spp. not too long ago).
That never happened to me with those type of polyps!!!
To date, I had the same problem with Zoanthus spp. only.
IME the problem happens, most of the time, with larger/older colonies.
It's gonna be hard to find lots of people with the problem once the tanks are normally full of small plugs nowadays.
Anyone else for the discussion?...
Grandis.
That never happened to me with those type of polyps!!!
To date, I had the same problem with Zoanthus spp. only.
IME the problem happens, most of the time, with larger/older colonies.
It's gonna be hard to find lots of people with the problem once the tanks are normally full of small plugs nowadays.
Anyone else for the discussion?...
Grandis.
A. Grandis
Active member
In that case it could be the glue indeed, or the type of substrate they grew on, I believe.
The episode we're talking about happens mostly with those known as "People Eaters" and other similar Zoanthus spp..
Grandis.
