The Tales of a marine beginner

scubaguy2010

New member
Ok, a little background. I have associated myself with aquariums for quite some time now. In 2002 I was dabbling in freshwater aquariums, all the way to injecting CO2 into the water to make the plants grow. I was quite successful but marine aquariums in 2002 were not really being sold.



Then work had me relocate from UK to Houston, Texas and that is where I tried out marine aquariums for the first time. However, back in 2002, there was no YouTube (that wouldn't arrive until 2005) and little in the way of online forums. So, I dived in with a few books as my guide. I mean, how hard and different to freshwater can it be I thought? What an unmitigated disaster that was. I had no clue about the importance of RODI systems, water flow, lighting, filtration (they sold me a trickle filter!!!), what to test for and monitor, additives, etc. The corals I bought quickly died and the aquarium just looked hopeless. I poured money down the drain and gave up!!!

Then fast forward to late 2012. I'm back in the UK and I start reading about marine aquariums on the internet and looking at loads of YouTube videos. Videos from MrSaltWaterTank and BRSTV were inspirational. The reasons for my failure in the states was starting to make sense. I was hooked again!

So, I designed my new marine system and got it built.



However, there was still much to learn and some big hurdles to address.

This was the system I built.



Note the top off tank to the left of the aquarium in a matching wood box and the 2 EcoTech MP40's in the tank.



Built around an Aquatronica tank controller (the Neptune Systems Apex controller was not available in the UK at that time. If it had been, I would have definitely selected that controller), I had control over everything. It was hooked into my Ethernet also so I had remote control too.

Note:
  • Dual media reactors (Carbon and PO4)
  • Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium dosing bottles. Dosing via dosing pump.



I had selected the expensive Vertex Illumina SR260 LED lights and it has performed brilliantly. Note the fans and the temperature thermometer in the hood. One fan blows, the other sucks. They are PC fans that I have connected to a power adapter. Should the water or hood temperature get too high, the controller turns on the fans. Temperature has never been an issue for me but it would have been without these fans.

I installed an RODI system which comprised of:
  • Pump
  • Stage 1 = Sediment Filter (5 micron)
  • Stage 2 = Carbon Block (CTO)
  • Stage 3 = Dual in line 150 GPD membranes
  • Stage 4 = 2 x 3.2 Gallon Drinking Water Pressure Tanks
  • Stage 5 = 1 way valve to DI Vessel to ensure DI water does not backflow into storage tanks
  • Stage 6 = 2 x 25L Plastic Jerry Cans that store the RODI water that then gets supplied to the top off tank next to the aquarium by gravity. These allow me to travel for up to 1 month before they need refilling.

I also created a log so I could keep track of all the parameters on my tank. The test kits I use are:
  • pH via probe connected to tank controller
  • Salinity via probe connected to tank controller or refractometer
  • Nitrate via high sensitivity test kit by DD Solutions
  • Phosphate via Hanna Pocket Checker
  • Alkalinity via Hanna Pocket Checker
  • Calcium via Hanna Pocket Checker
  • Magnesium via Salifert Test kit



I believed I had thought of everything and I almost had but there were a few design choices that made me pay dearly.

The first of which, that I didn't realise until 18 months in was that the seal on the top of my DI canister was faulty and my RO water was bypassing the DI media. So, the water that was going into my tank was always around 6 TDS. Not good. I replaced sediment filters, carbon filters and DI media like it was going out of fashion but I could never get the TDS of my filtered fresh water to 0 TDS. This resulted in my tank always having a mild algae problem. It also caused algae in the bottom of my 2 x 25L plastic jerry cans, all of which was going into my tank. No wonder I had algae problems.

The solution, a 15p (20 cents) replacement seal for my DI Resin vessel, and the TDS came crashing down to zero. No more algae in the jerry cans now. I replaced the clean-up crew in my tank as well as getting a brown tang and before long (within 1 month) the tank was free of algae. I then invested in some additional digital TDS monitors so I could monitor the effectiveness of each stage of my RODI system. I created the log below to allow me to monitor the effectiveness and know when to change stages.

I can't emphasise how important the cleanliness of your input water needs to be. Everyone focusses on what's happening inside your tank but if you can prove the TDS of your RODI water is perfect, everything else becomes simpler.



The second thing that went wrong did so while I was travelling for a couple of months. All of a sudden, my aquarium controller started emailing me in the middle of the night on the other side of the world to say that the sump level had dropped too low and the main pump had been shut off as a precaution. What had happened was that the submersible pump in my top off tank had failed and was no longer topping off the evaporation in my main tank. I tried through relatives to get the pump working again but to no avail and I had to remotely switch off the lights to limit further evaporation and leave the tank with the main pump off too for more than 1 month until I could get home. The result, I lost all my coral and most of my fish. What I did to correct this was install a peristaltic pump (by Avast) so no longer was the pump in contact with the water for top off. Much more reliable.

The third thing that I was having difficulty with was controlling my Nitrates. So, I installed a submersible bio-pellet reactor behind the skimmer so I could direct the outflow from the bio-pellet reactor into the intake for the skimmer. Now my Nitrates are always zero.

So, now my aquarium looks like this.



I do 20% water changes once per month and this leaves me with a stable system with no algae. The coral frags I have added are growing, my tank parameters are perfect and the TDS of my top-off water remains zero. I think I'm in a much better place.

If I had to leave some lessons learned for others they would be:
  1. Do your research. Read some books, watch YouTube channels, read some forums. Prepare yourself.
  2. Design your system down to the last detail before you buy anything. All the way from producing RODI water to tank controllers to what automated systems do you need in place to allow you to live your own life, i.e. it's no fun having to top-up the top-off tank manually every 3-4 days. Automate as much as you can.
  3. Be expected to invest heavily in the beginning. This is not a cheap hobby and it will be bloody expensive if you get things wrong because you cut corners to get started.
  4. Monitor and log everything you can. Especially on your RODI system to tell you how it's performing. Don't leave such an important input to chance.
  5. Keep an open mind and keep learning.

So, I hope you have found my journey useful, informative or just simply interesting. By no means do I consider myself as an expert but I feel more in control now than ever before.
 
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This is a great help to me. I am just embarking on this journey and am reading probably 3-4 hours a day. I'm trying to balance a limited budget with no experience in marine aquaria, but I am a proficient DIYer, so I hope I can make this work without too many expensive mistakes. Going very slow.

Where I am right now - I just drilled the tank for a 1.5" Bean Animal drain system and am trying to finalize a sump and ATO design.

Your experience and advice was very timely for me.

Regards
Michael
 
One of the most important statements I have ever heard is that "keeping an aquarium is all about keeping and maintaining water quality". This is so true!

I'm like a stuck record when I say, get your RODI system working correctly, monitor each stage's performance, and you will be on a solid foundation. Invest in digital TDS monitors and a hand held TDS probe to help you with this. I didn't and it was at the root of my problems.

You will notice that the TDS of my source water fluctuates so measuring a %age drop between stages is the key performance indicator (KPI) for stage performance. Having this calculated automatically in my spreadsheet has helped me understand my RODI system performance.

Also, there are a sequence of YouTube videos from LAFishGuy where he interviews a very knowledgeable guy on how to tune your Skimmer. Worth watching. I personally don't think the LAFishGuy himself is as modern as I would want him to be. You'll know what I mean if you watch more of his videos but he does great interviews with people who actually know what they are talking about. Anyway, here is the link to the first video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXuEebGU9zA
 
I installed an RODI system which comprised of:
Pump
Stage 1 = Sediment Filter (5 micron)
Stage 2 = Carbon Block (CTO)
Stage 3 = Dual in line 150 GPD membranes
Stage 4 = 2 x 3.2 Gallon Drinking Water Pressure Tanks
Stage 5 = 1 way valve to DI Vessel to ensure DI water does not backflow into storage tanks
Stage 6 = 2 x 25L Plastic Jerry Cans that store the RODI water that then gets supplied to the top off tank next to the aquarium by gravity. These allow me to travel for up to 1 month before they need refilling.

Are you open to some comments on this RODI configuration?

Russ
 
YOUR CARBON PREFILTER - With two 150 gpd membranes, plumbed in parallel or in series, you've created a 300 gpd RO. Making some assumptions about your pressure and water temperature, and assuming you have something near a 4 to 1 ratio set up, in a day, you'd produce:
300 gallons permeate
1200 gallons concentrate, for a total of 1500 gallons. Break that down to a gpm rate and it is 1.04 gpm. The carbon block you reference, assuming it is a 10" x 2.5" cart, is rated up to only 1 gpm. Also pay close attention - you'll blow through a 10" carbon block quickly processing that volume of water.

YOUR PRESSURE TANKS - It is generally not a good idea to use pressure tanks with DI water. I wasn't clear from your description if that's what you're doing. Several reasons for this I can go into if you'd like. If you are storing RO drinking water in the pressure tnaks - the check valve should be installed to prevent water from the pressure tanks from reaching the DI - is that how you have it?

YOUR MEMBRANES - the 150's are spec'ed at 65 psi, not the 50 psi you hear people often quote for 75 gpd Filmtec membranes.

Russ
 
I hear what you are saying. The pressure tanks are isolated from the DI stage (i.e. before the DI stage). I'm not drinking DI water. The DI stage is the last stage which I have isolated so I can produce water for only my drinking water storage tanks or open up and produce DI water into my jerry cans which only supply to my aquarium. I don't drink from the jerry cans. There is zero chance of DI water getting back into the pressure tanks due to the 1 way valve (not to mention I isolate with a ball valve also).

I operate the system to refill my drinking water storage tanks about once every week. I refill my jerry cans (operate the DI stage) about once every month. So, the carbon block lasts about 3-4 months. I can live with this. I flush the membrane for 10 mins before every use.

I understand my water pressure is barely acceptable but I get the results I want at the refill speed I want to achieve. The only way to increase the pressure is to buy a much more expensive supply pump.

I hope you agree I deserve some credit for the level of TDS, Total Chlorine and Pressure monitoring I'm doing with my RODI system. A normal off the shelf system would not have this. I think I'm on the right track?
 
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There is zero chance of DI water getting back into the pressure tanks due to the 1 way valve (not to mention I isolate with a ball valve also).
Its RO water from the P tanks getting to the DI that will reduce your DI life.

I just looked at your spreadsheet for the first time just now. Very impressive. I'd start your TDS measurements AFTER all the prefilters - that's the true "feedwater." The purpose of the sediment and carbon prefilters really isn't to remove TDS. Then after the RO)s), then after the DI. Where are you measuring post membrane pressure - the waste water? Or are you really losing 10 psi through your prefilters?

You mention in the notes on the right that you are using GAC - was that just shorthand for "carbon block?" GAC would really be a bad choice for your single carbon stage. A second carbon stage would be a good addition.
 
Thanks Buckeye. I isolate the Pressure Tanks from the DI Stage with a ball valve. So, the pressure tanks are not constantly supplying water to the DI stage.

The 2 pressures I quote are:
- Source water pressure (Pre Sediment Stage, Post pump), and
- after the 2nd membrane on the produce side, not on the waste water.

I'm not using GAC any more. I'm on a carbon block.

I agree, a 2nd carbon block stage would be beneficial.
 
Hmm. Couple of thoughts:

1. You have a pump. Move the pump after the prefilters and crank up the pressure. With 300 gpd of membranes you may not have anymore capacity on the pump. Depends which pump you're using.

2. If your pumped pressure is 70, and permeate pressure is 60, something is wrong. The permeate is the low pressure side of the system. The membranes function of differential pressure: 70-60=10 psi - you wouldn't be getting the rejection you are from the membranes at 10 psi. Somethings not right here...

Russ
 
Sorry, my stupid mistake. The pressures are:
- Source water pressure (Pre Sediment Stage, Post pump), and
- after the 2nd membrane on the waste side, not on the produce side.
 
I see. The pressure reading on the concentrate probably something that could be omitted if you're looking to trim your monitoring a little.

Have you ever checked your waste water to purified water ratio?
 
I definitely don't have enough capacity on the pump. Its the next thing to get changed when budgets permit.

There is a diaphragm pump (i.e., a lower cost pump) that will handle your capacity - you don't have to jump up to a rotary vane pump with a big motor.

Are you using an Aquatec 8800 now?
 
I did but I don't have it to hand. From what I can remember it didn't set off any alarms. Next time I do a refill, I'll check it again. What ratio am I looking for? 4 waste water to 1 purified?
 
Great stuff! Thanks for sharing. I'm nowhere near the same level as anyone else is at but I do use rodi water. My tds reading is 2-3 and I've always thought that was really good... Should I be going for 0? :eek: maybe I need a replacement.

Thanks
 
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