Rhodophyta
New member
http://www.super-tek.com/quikset.htm This stuff is pretty easy to work with, just do small pieces to start. Keep it thin.
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
- Thread starter Travis L. Stevens
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onetrickpony
Premium Member
Does any one know of a concrete mixture more like a clay consistency?
I was thinking of trying plastic cement,
It is what is used for the scratch coat with stucco
Thanks
Ken
I was thinking of trying plastic cement,
It is what is used for the scratch coat with stucco
Thanks
Ken
Insane Reefer
New member
Would that "loosen" it inside though? The "shiny" doesn't bother me, in fact, that will only speed to colonies of coraline grow, since they grow on slick surfaces before rough. My problem is this stuff is dense, almost like china, even with sand/cc mixed in. If I want to sell/use the white rock, I have to either be able to know that what I am selling is beneficial to the purchasers tank, or that is is not, and should only be used ornamentally. I'm really conserned that the salt isn't releasing, except on the very surface
I'm playing with the idea of fascades - the big disply rock "Nessy", is a shell for base rock, or I have a tester I tried "painting" the white onto - sort of looks like sugar frosted mini-wheats, lol.
The idea is to cover the ugly grey with a brighter finish that will, over all, brighten the tank.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that grey cement reefs look "dingy"? Even years later, when coverage is as complete as it will get, there just seems to be a dingy overall effect. JMO.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
I don't want to stray too far OT with a question/idea/thought, but here goes:
Could a white sand be used as the mold? It would stick to the outside of the DIY rock, add a whiter/brighter appearance.
I know that there is some debate about using silica sand in reef aquaria, I'm not sure I understand all the issues. (If someone can fill me in or link me to an appropriate page for info, thanks!)
I have lots of that (silica) on hand from several years of cichlids, that has always been my substrate of choice
Could I use that in/on my DIY rocks to prevent the grey drabs?
Could a white sand be used as the mold? It would stick to the outside of the DIY rock, add a whiter/brighter appearance.
I know that there is some debate about using silica sand in reef aquaria, I'm not sure I understand all the issues. (If someone can fill me in or link me to an appropriate page for info, thanks!)
I have lots of that (silica) on hand from several years of cichlids, that has always been my substrate of choice
Could I use that in/on my DIY rocks to prevent the grey drabs?
IR, try to entrain air into your mix with a aerator, that will create voids in your mix. The key then is not to vibrate (bang around) the mix too much because that will cause the air to escape the mix and filling in the voids.
When you see them pour roads you see a machince that runs across the top of the pour and it vibrates the air out of the concrete to make it stronger. In your case the strength loss due to voids isn't an issue since it will be strong enough for your needs.
To all,
Make sure you dont add alot of water to your mix becuase the water to cement ratio will be messed up and you will get a brittle result. Make it dry so you can work it and just cover the piece to trap the moisture in. Conrete generates heat during the chemical reactions during the Kuring process which will evabroate the moisture out. We normally put a curing compound on the concrete to trap the moisture into the concrete. In the old days they would submerge the roads in water (basically flooding the streets) after the surace had set (turned light gray - in about 2 to 4 hrs, depending on temps)
I posted a article about using Fly Ash in the mix to make it strong and to reduce the about of cement used.
When using sand boxes for molds make sure your sand is totally saturated or it will suck the moisture out of your mix. Once the piece is set (light grayish) you can submerge it to help control the internal generated heat which will help prevent it from cracking.
When you see them pour roads you see a machince that runs across the top of the pour and it vibrates the air out of the concrete to make it stronger. In your case the strength loss due to voids isn't an issue since it will be strong enough for your needs.
To all,
Make sure you dont add alot of water to your mix becuase the water to cement ratio will be messed up and you will get a brittle result. Make it dry so you can work it and just cover the piece to trap the moisture in. Conrete generates heat during the chemical reactions during the Kuring process which will evabroate the moisture out. We normally put a curing compound on the concrete to trap the moisture into the concrete. In the old days they would submerge the roads in water (basically flooding the streets) after the surace had set (turned light gray - in about 2 to 4 hrs, depending on temps)
I posted a article about using Fly Ash in the mix to make it strong and to reduce the about of cement used.
When using sand boxes for molds make sure your sand is totally saturated or it will suck the moisture out of your mix. Once the piece is set (light grayish) you can submerge it to help control the internal generated heat which will help prevent it from cracking.
Insane Reefer
New member
Most of the debate over silica sand dirives from partical size and lack of buffering capacity. Since cement contains silicates (correct?), there isn't too big of an issue on that count.
I think I remember reading somewhere were there was some thought as to algae bloom being linked to silica sands, but not sure if that is true.
I think I remember reading somewhere were there was some thought as to algae bloom being linked to silica sands, but not sure if that is true.
Barto
Alleged Lounge Moron
Batch 2, after about 4 days soak. I do like them better than version 1. Batch 3 is setting up in a salt mold, as I type.
This is fun!
Batch 2, top view
Table
small cave
bigger cave
Link to batch 1, didn't want to dbl post them
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7477235#post7477235
This is fun!
Batch 2, top view
Table
small cave
bigger cave
Link to batch 1, didn't want to dbl post them
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7477235#post7477235
redvipe2010
In Memoriam
BigSkyBart: Nice job on the rocks. What was the ratio of salt to cement that you used? Did you use any sand?
Insane Reefer
New member
While it is wet/being mixed or during the kure?
Insane Reefer
New member
Oh, and a few were talking about crumbliness...
Because of the salt, you are going to end up with membrane thin places in the cement, particularly on the edges. These will undoubtedly crumble with handling, and is normal. One thing I do once the salt is mostly gone, is take a piece of hardwood, like dowel or tool handle, and rub it briskly, but lightly over the surface of the rock, nocking off anything that is ready to come off anyway. What's left behind is usually pretty solid and non-crumbly.
Because of the salt, you are going to end up with membrane thin places in the cement, particularly on the edges. These will undoubtedly crumble with handling, and is normal. One thing I do once the salt is mostly gone, is take a piece of hardwood, like dowel or tool handle, and rub it briskly, but lightly over the surface of the rock, nocking off anything that is ready to come off anyway. What's left behind is usually pretty solid and non-crumbly.
slalomskier49456
New member
Based on experience with silica-based sands, it is not a good idea. I had terrible algae blooms until I siphoned out all of the sand from the tank.
Regarding the "parts" mentioned in seemingly all of the formula posts, does this refer to volume or weight?
Can someone simplify the formula for making this into x number of cups of cement + x number of cups of salt + x number of cups of water and then variations, using oyster shells, etc.? I realize that the water component can vary, depending on the particle size of the salt, so that should be kept in mind for any formula like this.
Also, I made a couple rocks using the "Mud" mixer from Home Depot (see page 5). Does anyone think that this is too aggressive and will cause the salt to dissipate during the mixing phase?
Finally, at which point does the "cure" stage turn from curing the concrete to curing into live rock? i.e. when should the created rocks be moved from hose water to sea water with pre-cured live rock introduced to "stock" the new rock with bacteria?
Mixing and forming the rock is one thing, but perhaps a summary of the whole process, including the point of safe introduction to the tank, would be in order.
Thanks,
Jamie
Regarding the "parts" mentioned in seemingly all of the formula posts, does this refer to volume or weight?
Can someone simplify the formula for making this into x number of cups of cement + x number of cups of salt + x number of cups of water and then variations, using oyster shells, etc.? I realize that the water component can vary, depending on the particle size of the salt, so that should be kept in mind for any formula like this.
Also, I made a couple rocks using the "Mud" mixer from Home Depot (see page 5). Does anyone think that this is too aggressive and will cause the salt to dissipate during the mixing phase?
Finally, at which point does the "cure" stage turn from curing the concrete to curing into live rock? i.e. when should the created rocks be moved from hose water to sea water with pre-cured live rock introduced to "stock" the new rock with bacteria?
Mixing and forming the rock is one thing, but perhaps a summary of the whole process, including the point of safe introduction to the tank, would be in order.
Thanks,
Jamie
Travis L. Stevens
New member
Once again, all these experiences are anectodtal. And from my anectodtal experiences, I have never encountered such a problem. Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe skier is unlucky. For further information, I recommend that everyone reads this article.
SILICA IN REEF AQUARIUMS by RANDY HOLMES-FARLEY, Ph.D. - http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/feature.htm
By volume.
See above comment. For example. If the mixture is 3:1:1 of some sort and you decide to use cups, it would be 3 cups of X, 1 cup of Y, and 1 cup of Z.
If mixed too much, yes. But unless you sit there and stir it for an excessive amount of time, all you will do is just have smaller holes in your rock.
First, we have to "cure" the rocks by letting them harden. I'm unsure the actual time for properly cured rocks. I just wait 24 hours without additional added moisture since I'm not building a house or road with my rocks
Then, they get placed in freshwater until the pH drops to a safe level of about 8.3. This can take anywhere from 4-6 weeks. Occassionally longer. Water changes definitely help speed things along
Lastly, when everything is settled down in the "kuring" tub, you can add them to your tank. It can take up a few months to see outward differences. Inside, it can take six months to a year to have a healthy culuture of bacteria. It's just like using base rock.
It is all listed in this thread, but summarized above for you
You're welcome
slalomskier49456
New member
Thanks a lot! Your promptness in response is impressive.
Since you are talking volume, the cups thing becomes obvious, but still, thanks for spelling it out.
Threads can become long and evolving. I have noticed that what was once clear can become convoluted as good ideas surface. I appreciate a good summary or best-practice every so often for clarity. I only wish our engineers could respond as quickly as you did...even anecdotally
Regarding the silica sand, I thought it would be great to use a little beach sand from our Lake Michigan Beach (sentimentally) on one end of the tank, but didn't think about the fact that Lake Michigan beaches are silica-based until I had the tank going. Who knows, the algae blooms could have been related to something else, but they did stop when the sand was removed.
Thanks again!
Jamie
Since you are talking volume, the cups thing becomes obvious, but still, thanks for spelling it out.
Threads can become long and evolving. I have noticed that what was once clear can become convoluted as good ideas surface. I appreciate a good summary or best-practice every so often for clarity. I only wish our engineers could respond as quickly as you did...even anecdotally
Regarding the silica sand, I thought it would be great to use a little beach sand from our Lake Michigan Beach (sentimentally) on one end of the tank, but didn't think about the fact that Lake Michigan beaches are silica-based until I had the tank going. Who knows, the algae blooms could have been related to something else, but they did stop when the sand was removed.
Thanks again!
Jamie
slalomskier49456
New member
I should clarify the sand thing--I didn't, technically, have algae blooms. I had major cyanobacteria breakouts until I got rid of the sand. Cyanobateria is definitely different than algae.
-J
-J
captbunzo
Premium Member
It is MUCH more likely that your cyano "blooms" were not due to silica based sand and much MORE likely to be do to lack of proper water flow causing nutrients to sink into your sandbed. Were you doing proper water changes? Did you have a good skimmer.
All important questions.
From what I have seen, Cyano "problems" are more often then not do to other issues with the system, and not silica based sand.
Travis L. Stevens
New member
Are you saying that I have too much time on my hands? :lmao:
...So what if I do....
Just kidding. Your welcome. The "My RC" button and "Subscribe to this thread" link make promptness easy
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