The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

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i don't knwo if anyone has mentioned this, but my info comes from my brother-in-law who own's a custome tile company. He says that adding a table spoon of baking soda to a bucket of mix (1 part cement, 3 parts sand... used for making a "sand bed" to shape the sloop of custom shower floors) will get it to "kick" quicker. We did this on for my home remodel projects, but I don't have anything to compare it to.

Perhaps someone else can comment on the science of the reaction taking place. I'm trying it on my second batch (first go round isn't doing so well) of DIY rocks.
 
also.. as for the salt pool... in a former life I was a pool tech. The salt systems I've worked on (pilot salt systems I think they were called) work with elctrodes to release chorine from the sodium chloride (salt). So.. just be aware that you'll be soaking in chorinated water along with the salt.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10023774#post10023774 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
Groovy, Eaj, How long was it from casting time to baking start time?
Keep us posted :)
I casted monday night and began baking Wed morning, it was 32.5hrs old.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10025119#post10025119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by manitou
So.. just be aware that you'll be soaking in chorinated water along with the salt.

Most water any of us use is chlorinated - that isn't an issue.
 
Thanks Eaj - but very little smell you say? Was the cement "punky"? Sort of soft, still?

That's 3 people who say the fumes weren't bad, but granted one baked days later. Maybe I'm just sensitive or something. I thought the fumes were sort of gnarly.
 
I'm getting ready to try a first batch in the next couple of weeks (need to gather all stuff). I'm wondering from people that tried this for the first time what their results were. Was it easy/hard/never do it again? Did the first batch turn out right? What do they wish they had done different after making several batches compared to the first.

I appologize if this has been asked already. I read as many posts as I could, but this thread is LONG!!!! I did read both summary posts by Travis and Insane and those helped a lot!!

Thanks a lot for your help and good job on this thread and research to all!!!! :D
 
Best tip I have for first time, is use less water than you think you'll need, add it slow & sparingly, work with the concrete mix a little dryer that you would "normal" concrete mix for projects.
don't over mix it, it seems like the more you work (mix) it, the more the salt dissolves into the mix

make a smallish batch or 2 at first to get the feel of the mixing, shaping, molding process.

my 2 batch looked better than the first, the 3rd looked better than the 2nd etc...
practice, practice...good luck
 
Thanks for the tips. I have a tendency to "over" work stuff trying to make it perfect.

About how much "ingredients" do you use....like 1 gallon....several cups......etc...? to make a small batch? I am seeing myself use too much and waste a lot while learning!!!!:D
 
I used some 14-16 oz plastic beverage cups as measuring devices
think of beer cups at a BBQ with a keg

1 cement, to about 2.5 salt is what I remember working well, I have not made any since last year, I need to make more, maybe this next weekend
 
Bart Do you like the cement/salt mix or the other one with 3 ingredients? How long should I plan for making my first batch, start to finsh, until I start to let it cure (mixing and forming rock)? 'Bout how much am I looking to pay for "ingredients"?
 
I think I paid <$20 total for my ingredients. I don't remember how much I paid for the portland cement 90# bag, but the salt was $4.99 and the pulverized limestone was $4.99 So, all in all it wasn't bad.
 
I have only made the cement/salt rocks, for variety I do want to try another mixture

medic29 has the costs estimated about right as far as I remember
 
Sounds like it is time again...

Sounds like it is time again...

WARNING - LONG POST!

Hey All,
I'm going to post my favorite tips and links every so often so new people can find it all pretty easy. It is a summation of the most commonly asked questions and things I have picked up through making my batches. Some I’ve gleaned from this thread, others I’ve learned from past mistakes and experiments. I've been making DIY man-made rock or aragocrete off and on for close to 8 years. Lately, I have even made some money on my rocks

I thought I’d pass this info on â€"œ maybe save someone some frustration or spark a new idea.

First, good info can be found at these two places - I think everyone who wants to make rock should read these in full. One of the articles gets pretty heavy handed with the science/chemistry aspect, the other babbles on tangents once in a while, but both are worth the read, IMO.
ARAGOCRETE RESEARCH BY TRACY GRAY
Reef Propagation Project:

And this link is for Cement Colorant â€"œ I’ve spoken with the vendor and am assured that, given our kure process, this stuff will be safe and colorfast in the aquarium. They sell it in small amounts in rainbow colors and are very cheap.

List of Aggregates
Sand - caribbean/aragonite is best, but very hard to find. Toys R Us carries a play sand that a lot of folks use and report no trouble with. Limestone sand has gotten good results as a DSB, so should also work.
Crushed Coral - AKA "CC". Makes nice, realistic rock, but expensive
Crushed Oyster Shell - AKA "OS". Any shell will work, but OS is very cheap at feed stores.
Salt - Many thanks to Travis Stevens for figuring this out! The salt of choice is "Solar Salt Crystals", typically found as a Water Softener Salt. 99% pure salt. Get the coarsest crystals you can find. Solar Cube can be used, but is sort of chunky - makes nice holes though. Solar Pellets can also be used, same as Cubes.

Rock Recipes
Ingredients are measured by volume, not weight!

Original Recipe: 4:1 - 3:1 / Salt:Cement
Improved Recipe: 3:1 - 2:1 / Salt:Cement
Other Recipe: 1:1.5:1.5:1 / Salt:Cement:CC&OS:Sand


Now, I will list my tips and tricks, in no particular order. Many will seem stupid or like common sense, but you don’t know about some people’s kids, lol…

Tips and tricks

1. Wear gloves when making rock. If possible, don’t let the cement get on your skin, especially the dry powder. If possible, wear a painter’s mask when measuring and mixing dry cement; this stuff can really burn the inside of your nose.
2. Setup your work area in advance; cover surfaces with plastic or old sheets if needed (like in your kitchen or living room). Fill casting containers with whatever mold material you are using, or have it standing by within easy reach. Give yourself walkways if you are making a lot of rock â€"œ nothing sucks as much as trying to create enough work space after the fact. :(
3. Think about the weather for not only the day you cast, but the next few days as well, if you plan on doing this outside. Rain can make a mess of things…
4. Use Portland Type I, II (I/II) or III â€"œ these are known to be safe for use and make rock with proper porosity.
5. Mix all aggregates excepting salt into the cement before adding water. Add salt after you have reached the right wet consistency, and mix it in lightly â€"œ the less salt is leeched off the grains of salt, the stronger your final rocks will be. Water softener salt of the type “Solar Salt Crystals” works wonderfully (Thank you Travis Stevens!).
6. I prefer to use crushed coral and sand in my rocks for long term strength, plus salt to add porosity. The aggregates give realistic details to the rock as well as provide beneficial reactions in the tank. My preferred recipe is 1-1.5 part cement + 1.5 part sand + 1 part crushed coral/shell mix + 1 part salt, but this is expensive to make. You can also use a mix of 1-1.5 cement + 1-2 crushed oyster shells + 1-2 salt.
Mainly, a 1 part cement to 3-4 parts “other” is acceptable, whatever you want to mix together is up to you and you should be ok if you follow the 1:3-4 part rule.
7. Work in layers for added dimension. If you lay a layer of molding stuff in your container, make a few divots in this molding layer first, and add cement to these first to make lumps on the bottom, you can avoid flat bottomed rocks. Now lay the main part of your rock, adding molding material as needed.
8. You can make neat “cliff-face” striations if you take a handful of salt, and lay it just along the top edge of wet cement, forming a narrow line of salt along the edge, laying a thin layer of cement over the salt, and repeating this to form, on the outer edge of your rock, a sort of cliff that looks to be cut by water action.
9. Anything cast thinner than an inch is likely to break, unless you are careful with it.
10. Find a nice bit of stainless steel or aluminum wire â€"œ 2mm or so in width, and bend a handle for one end (remember you will probably be wearing gloves, so bend accordingly). As you cast your rock, use this wire to poke Lots of little tunnels all through the rock â€"œ all the way through if you can; this will make the rocks extra porous, and give bug life lots of places to hide and propagate in-tank, as well as allowing more water to move through the rock. Alternatively, you can cast the piece, and then poke as much of it as you can â€"œ though this way tends to look a bit contrived. I like the first way better.
11. Once your rock has cured and it has been curing for about a week and if you made it mixed with stuff like crushed coral or shells, mix up a weak acid mix and scrub the outside of your rocks with a stiff bristle brush. Be sure to take proper precautions when working with acid â€"œ not only from burns, but from fumes as well!!! If you only made your rock with salt and cement, ignore the acid wash, as your rocks will dissolve, but still give them a vigorous scrubbing - this will loosen the weakest stuff and get rid of it without shedding it all over your tank. If you have shells or coral, this can make the surface even more porous, and clean cement films from shells and the like that might be on the surface. I use a mixture of 1/2c muriatic acid added to 2c water.
12. You can make “lock together” pieces by wrapping a bit of PVC in something like tissue paper or plastic wrap, sticking it in the wet cement of “part a”, and then laying plastic wrap over and around the fresh cement/PVC, and then cast “part b”, making sure to get a good fit around the PVC join. I find this works, but I personally have an easier time if I cast “part a” with PVC set into it, let it cure, then wrap it well with whatever, and cast “part b”, and I can cast really large pieces this way.
13. “Cement Paint”. You can make up a slurry of cement and sand, say 1 part cement to 2 or 3 parts sand, made fairly thin and fairly wet and sloppy, and use it to decorate rock with “coralline algae”. I use white Portland, but I don’t see why white grout or mortar wouldn’t work as well. You can use cement colorants to color the cement any shade you desire. Working with a paintbrush, you can easily replicate the swirling patterns of coralline. I’ve also used this mix to paint/dry brush grey Portland rocks to white.
14. Branching rock/Coral skeletons. Pick PVC pipe a bit thinner than what you want your final piece to be. Cut into appropriate lengths, cutting one end flat and the other at an angle. Drill plenty of holes in the PVC to help the cement stick on. Drill extra holes on the very end that will allow you to tie the pieces onto the “main branch” with zip ties. You can bend PVC into believable shapes using heat from either a propane torch or a heat gun, and a couple of pairs of pliers (use appropriate precautions). After you have your PVC framework, mix a thicker blend of Cement Paint (less water, more cement) and paint/dip the skeleton, covering completely. I recommend hanging to dry, and dipping several times, using a paintbrush to smooth it out and prevent weird drips. When done coating, tie a grocery bag around the hanging piece to preserve moisture and allow to cure 48 hours or more.
15. Think about how corals come to you, as frags and whole colonies, and think about how hard it can be to attach these in your typical rock pile. Flatter surfaces and shallow bowls in larger rock shapes can make latter placement easier.
16. You can make rock “shells” if you want to avoid the rock pile look altogether and these are only limited to your imagination and size constraints. You can stuff the cavity in the back of this hollow construction with cheap $1.99/lbs rock, or whatever you want. I DO NOT recommend making these with the cement and salt only recipe! Make a form of some sort (use your imagination), put it in a box that will fit into your tank (making a rock too big for the target tank blows), and secure it to one side, or more (for multi-part casts) with duct tape. Line rest of box with plastic. I made my form from plastic grocery bags stuffed into a garbage bag, with a little air added, and taped that into the target box. Slowly build the shell wall (adding details as you wish), filling the box with salt/molding material, until you have the form covered with a fairly uniform covering of cement. LEAVE ALONE FOR A WEEK! Cover with plastic if you can.
17. Frag Plugs. If you have extra cement at the end of the day, make frag plugs by using a mini muffin pan, and filling with ½in. of cement. Spray the pan with cooking spray for easier release. These can be put in a mesh bag and cured in the toilet tank.
18. Hate scraping the back wall of your tank? You can make thin wall covering sheets that can be glued with silicone to the back wall of your tank. Alternatively you could make shelves along those lines. I find casting on a sheet of glass covered in plastic works best for this. Also marking out the actual measurements of the back wall onto the glass helps to avoid sizing issues. I DO NOT recommend using the salt and cement only recipes for this application, nor the use of any salt at all! I also mix this just a little wetter than I normally use. Once you are setup, just drool the cement onto the covered glass. I tried doing large sheets, but these mostly were too weak to hold up. I find making smaller pieces (12inX12in or so) that abut like a puzzle work best, and sort of give the illusion of looking at a cracked and crevassed reef wall. After you cast these, they need to be kept moist and unmoved for 3 days. Believe me. They do. And you will need to mist them once a day. I just covered mine with a garbage bag and used a water bottle to mist it. I recommend an acid wash, as described above, once these have kured for a week.
19. If you make a rock or rocks you don't like, either use fresh cement mix to add some new bits, or break the rock up and use it as aggregate in your next batch - no waste is good
20. The moister you can keep the cement while it cures, the harder the final rock will be - try wrapping it in a bag, or misting it while it cures. Supposedly, if you can let it sit for two weeks before starting to kure, it will dramatically speed the kure time.
21. Dust your molding sand with oat flour for easy removal of surface sand. Thanks Rhody!
22. Mix molasses with your molding sand to give it more texture. Thanks Rhody!

Various things I have used and have worked for me for adding details:
1. Cemented Nylon String. Makes realistic tube worm/duster tubes. Make a thin paste of just cement, and dip small lengths of the sting in. Wipe excess off between fingers and lay onto the rock in desired figure.
2. Veggie Capsules. These can make little tunnels when laid end to end in the wet cement, and then covered with more cement. Or poke into outside edges to mimic polyp holes. Do NOT mix into the cement mix.
3. Nori Sheets. These can be wetted and formed into shapes or rolled into tunnels.
4. Balloons. Both the round and “animal” ones work. I find that filling them with water makes them stronger. Doubling them up works well too. Make sure that you can get the balloon out afterward.
5. Cardboard Rolls. Can be cut to form bracing, tunnels or for pillar shapes. Be sure to use it in such a way as will allow you to remove it after a few days of kuring. Hemostats work great for grabbing a-hold and pulling it out.
6. Tissue Paper. The white stuff you find in gift bags. Disintegrates quickly during kure. You can make little (or big) “salt bags”, that you can lay into the middle of larger rocks to give more holes for ‘pods and the like. Can be used to make caves and tunnels. Just use a small bit of paper, lay some salt in it and twist or tuck the ends â€"œ a small bit of cotton thread could be used to secure the package too.
7. Pasta. Must be cooked “Al Dente” before use. Do not mix into cement, it only makes a mess and is a pain to get out of the rock (ever scraped 3 day old pasta off a plate?).. Use to add spaces in the rock, or tunnels with spaghetti. Rigatoni adds a nice effect if placed just right.

Things that DO NOT work:
1. Vinegar/acid kuring. Waste of time. Lowers initial pH, but pH will then later spike.
2. Bio-degradable packing peanuts/Cheesy-poofs. I can find no way to really use these that is also safe for the tank.
3. Fish food pellets. That was really, really nasty. I don’t want to go there.
4. Uncooked Pasta. As pasta absorbs water, it expands, causing the cement to fracture and crack â€"œ cook it al dente if you really want to use it.
5. Alka-Seltzer . Doesn’t work. It dissolves to quickly.


Rock Kuring
Kuring your rock is the next hurdle. It is pretty straight forward. Lots of time, and lots of water changes with adequate water volume, unless you have access to a reasonably clean waterway. Powerheads help force water through the rock and help the insides kure out. Pumping air via a stone, or using a CO2 contraption supposedly makes the rock kure faster, harder and better. When your bucket kured rock quits leeching out white scum on the surface of the water, and stops leaving a white residue on the bottom of the bucket, you can start checking for pH. Rock has been known to kure in as little as 2 weeks, but most bucket kured rock takes 6-8 weeks to reach safe levels â€"œ some will take up to 3 months. Be prepared to wait.

To properly test for pH, change the water â€"œ either use RO/DI or aged saltwater. Let the rock sit in this for 4 days without air or powerheads â€"œ you want still, stagnant water for this. After the 4 days, give the water a bit of a stirring and check pH with appropriate test kit. If it is in the acceptable range of 8.0 to 8.6, it is probably safe to use. If not, continue to kure.

If adding your rock to a newly established tank, you can go ahead and put it all in at once. If the tank is older, with inhabitants, you may wish to only add a rock or two at a time, to allow the system to “settle” between each addition.

Expect an algae bloom. :eek1:
A few people, those who either have waterways to cure in, or those with really butch systems have reported no algae blooms, but I suspect they are the exception, not the rule. If your tank blooms, don’t panic. Most tanks bloom within the maturation period anyway. Double check your system for things like NO2 and NO3, and other algae causing symptoms and correct anything that isn’t up to snuff. Take all the normal steps to curtail the growth, but then just ride it out. If the bloom is caused by the rocks, the algae will soon deplete the readily available nutrients and starve itself out. If it doesn’t go away within a few months, then you should check into other reasons for the bloom.

Well, I think that about covers my repertoire. I apologize for the length of this post, but hopefully some of you will find something of use…

I encourage the rest of you to take some time to write up your experiences and tips and share them with us â€"œ by sharing our experiences, we all learn and get better and better at making our own rock.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10032550#post10032550 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by onnenmd
like 1 gallon....several cups......etc...? to make a small batch?


I like using tin cans - the large ones like Ravioli come in. They hold up to repeated use.
 
Just wanna post quick on the swimming pool question. Way back somewhere near the begining of this thread I posted about letting my rock sit in my pool. I went ahead and let 3 pieces sit in a milk crate in my pool for just under a month. After removing I did a freshwater bath for 3-4 days and upon testing the chlorine was 0. I try to use as little chemicals in my pool as possible so I cant say that others wont be harmful but as for the chlorine, it shouldn't pose any problems.

On a side note though make sure you give them a good rinse and maybe even use a wire brush to get some of the flakey stuff off. You dont want to be stepping on any cement pieces and if you have an above ground pool you dont want your liner being punctured. Maybe use a rubbermaid lid or shallow container in the bottom of the milk crate just to be safe.
HTH
 
IR Yep, I did the "taste test" Sunday evening and didn't taste any salt, so I haven't boiled them any more. I am going to empty the pot they are in, rinse them off, then put them in 1 or 2 5 gallon buckets with 4 gallons of water and 1 gallon of vinegar (I think that is the concentration you had mentioned).

When am I susposed to be checking the pH on these? Do I need to check the pH today when I start soaking them? Then in 3 days or at the end of a week? I'm having trouble remembering right now.

So, how many other lab monkeys are there??
 
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