The Ultimate DIY Rocks!

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Even though this "heavy" piece was the only one that still had lots of salt in it, I still would use a concrete drill bit to put a few to lot of holes in my rocks from what will be the back and lower sides out of view. I have some denser rocks that I drilled with a 1/4" bit about every half inch or so in a grid pattern. In some I used a larger bit but drilled from three closely spaced spots in all directions so each hole was the starting for a dozen drill holes, then used an old screwdriver to naturalize the three drill spots into a single "cave entrance". My wife appropriated one big one more than two feet long like this that had several cave entrances leading to a completely hollowed out interior. It had broken in two during the screwdriver pounding, but after it was cleaned and dry, I siliconed it back together. My wife filled it with dirt and planted hens and chickens in it and put it out in the yard. It has been out there for years through many freeze/thaw seasons and is still holding together.

Yes it is easier to hollow out the interior by planning ahead and filling it with sand. But fussing with the rock afterward can improve some pieces that did not turn out as planned. I have also retexured/improved some rock surfaces with wire brushes and tools that are for removing old window glazing.
 
GuySmilie: The rock looks great. With such a large piece, it doesn't surprise me it will take a little longer to get that last bit of salt out. I had the same thing happen. But, I was reassured by Randy Holmes-Farley that the extra rock salt won't hurt a tank as long as it doesn't raise the specific gravity (it shouldn't).

Someone awhile back was going to cut open a rock and report on what they found.
I never did see anything posted about that.
That would be me. Sorry. Been really busy. It's on my To Do list.

But first, there was this salt deposit on the underside of the rock; where most of the water oozed out. And yes IR, I did taste it this time and its salt for sure
Those are definitely salt deposits. Sometimes you'll get something similar to that while Kuring, but it will be more spikey. These are calcium deposits.

Insane Reefer You have a point about hot water. It's one of the principles of getting a solute to dissolve into a solvent. Also, aggitation is another. Keep something in the hot-water Kuring vat to keep the water circulating and that salt should come out in no time.
 
When I changed my water out I used really hot tap water to rinse each rock and then a hot water bath. For about 2 weeks I would get salt when I exchanged the water and by 3 weeks it was pretty much gone.
 
Coop. I honestly have been super busy this week. I can tell you that the pH was no different then it would normally be, but I think we all sort of expected that. The "crud" was coming out like rats on a sinking ship though - way beyond anything I've seen thus far, so I think at least, if nothing else, a shorter kure can be expected. Short enough to warrant upsetting the head of your kitchen? Not sure, but will have time this weekend to actually get them in some water and start a proper kure.

Does anyone in the thread have extensive chemical/chemistry experience? If you do, and have a small amount of time to chat via PM to answer some chemistry questions, I'd be really appreciative. Just PM me. Thanks!
 
hi guys...the only type of sand i can find around here is Quickcrete play sand, and i was wonderin if this is alright to use for the rocks???
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9928636#post9928636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fatrip
hi guys...the only type of sand i can find around here is Quickcrete play sand, and i was wonderin if this is alright to use for the rocks???
it works for me
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9928636#post9928636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fatrip
hi guys...the only type of sand i can find around here is Quickcrete play sand, and i was wonderin if this is alright to use for the rocks???

Have you checked the feed stores? Some sell pulverized limestone (which others on RC have used for DSB's) for "Feed Mixing", and it is really cheep and will be nicer to use. Just make sure it isn't granite grit - granite would be no different than the Quikcrete sand.
 
Ok.
I have a bit of news. I had forgotten that a few days ago I had dropped 2 test pieces in a stronger vinegar solution - 2 cups to 1 gallon water. The rocks were in there for 3 days. I rinsed them out last night and refilled with freshwater. The pH when I put then in the first test water right after releasing the salt, had gone instantly purple after only 3 drops of reagent (instead of the 10 it calls for), and my set tests to 11. I just tested these rocks and the pH is at 9!!!
Now before anyone gets too excited. This will need to sit for a while to see if the customary spike shows up. And I need to let it set for 2 more days to complete a proper pH test phase, but usually if it is high, it will be high pretty quickly in such a small amount of water.
I'm thinking the rock won't spike - this is why I baked them - to finish the process that causes the spike so acid bathing would work.

It's times like these I wish I had a laboratory and a couple of lab monkeys...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9929044#post9929044 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
It's times like these I wish I had a laboratory and a couple of lab monkeys...
But you do!
RC and we! :D
 
Half-Baked Test Call - Show of Hands, Please.

Half-Baked Test Call - Show of Hands, Please.

Ok Guy, since you so nicely volunteered ;)
This is also for anyone else in a "lab monkey" frame of mind...

I am not responsible for injuries or damages incurred by using this process! This is a DIY experiment, and could be dangerous if done stupidly.

Keep in mind that this has only been tested with the "Ol' Skool +" type rock. I don't make the salt only rock, so this may not work. It will be interesting to see if it does.

Anyway.
Make a batch of rock - in damp sand for preference. 3 pieces should be enough - about 15lbs worth. Don't get fancy - just medium sized flattish balls will work - 4 or 5" thick would be good.
Make a note of exactly how much of what you used, and what type of cement and brand you used. Post this info.

After 36 hours, carefully remove your rocks, brush them off and then get ready to bake them in a 450°F oven. They will still be punky, or sort of soft - that is exactly what we want - green rock.

To prep the oven, remove all fancy pans, etc. Cover racks with foil. Fill a shallow metal cake pan (use an old (or cheap) pan) with hot water, and place on bottom rack in bottom slot. Layer other rack in next "slot" - the idea is to give you the largest space in the oven for the rocks, but still allow a pan for water.

Prep kitchen for acrid fumes. These fumes are not deadly, just unpleasant. A fan venting in the window works great. Sheet over the kitchen door prevents most smell from migrating too much.

Now heat oven. When hot, place rocks inside - they can touch, or even be piled.
Bake for 4 hours. Keep an eye on the water level and refill as needed. This needs to be a moist heat.

Allow to cool for 2 hours, in the oven, with the door closed. While this is happening, prep water for salt release. The water needs to be hot. Hook a hose to your laundry hookup, or use your imagination - but the water needs to be hot.

Now, wearing gloves (I use chemical gloves), take the rock out of the oven (be careful, it will still be hot), and plunge it into your Hot release water. Plunge it in and out of the water several times to really get the water inside it. You may notice your water starting to simmer - this is great - it will help remove all the salt and crud quicker. Do all pieces, leave them in there and then allow water to cool. Drain. Again, using hot water, refill and allow to cool. Do this one more time. This should take you a day or so to complete - figure 6-8 hours between refills.

Our rock is now just under 3 days old and tough as nails. :)

After salt has been released, now we will soak in vinegar. I'm still working on ratios, so you can feel free to experiment at this stage. I'm going to recommend 1 gallon of vinegar to 5 gallons of water. Look for the highest % you can on the vinegar - it comes in 4%-10% at the store. I'm looking into citric acid as well, so this step may change in the future. You just need enough liquid to cover the rocks and allow about 4" clearance over the top of the highest rock. The batch I am asking for should fit into a 5 gallon bucket - that is what I am aiming for.

Allow rock to soak, for 5 days. Use a powerhead or pump to circulate the water!

Drain vinegar solution from rocks, and rinse well. Refill kure bin, and fill with water of whatever type. After 3 days, test your pH, and post.

Leave rock and water in kure bin and retest in 7 days. If no spike, and safe pH, leave it alone and retest one more time, again, in 7 days. Post all results.

This will conclude one test. We can then compare results and see what we see.

The last two pH tests will prolong this test, but will tell us if the rock is going to spike later on in the kure, which is what typically happens in "green" rock.

Go get crackin' monkeys :)
 
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I had looked into the quikrete play sand, and all of there sand for that matter, and it all has quartz in it....I thought that crystallized silica was not good to use???
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9936032#post9936032 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fatrip
I had looked into the quikrete play sand, and all of there sand for that matter, and it all has quartz in it....I thought that crystallized silica was not good to use???
It should be pretty much sealed into the concrete. If your tank is glass which is simply melted sand, why would a little sand be bad?
 
yes that is basically what I am asking, isn't it bad to use silica filled sand, and why is it bad??? it isn't the sand I am worried about that is just pulverized granite and what not, but the crystallized silica in most sand mixtures is what has me leary...
 
Does anyone in the thread have extensive chemical/chemistry experience? If you do, and have a small amount of time to chat via PM to answer some chemistry questions, I'd be really appreciative. Just PM me. Thanks

Ask Boomer

yes that is basically what I am asking, isn't it bad to use silica filled sand, and why is it bad??? it isn't the sand I am worried about that is just pulverized granite and what not, but the crystallized silica in most sand mixtures is what has me leary...
I had the same mentality as Rhodophyta about silica. I proved myself wrong, but I'm still not worried about silicates in a reef aquarium, and I've used it too, with success. Here is some information for you where I proved myself wrong

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7657820#post7657820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
I stand corrected with the articles below, but might I add that silica sand does not dissolve an amount that is higher than natural seawater and is actually lower than that of what is found in most of our synthetic salt mixes. In short, the amount that is dissolved is rather neglegable; not "does not leech silica" at all

Here are some articles. The abstracts below are intended to any reader. Not just you, Russ. :thumbsup:

SILICON â€" FOE OR FRIEND? by Craig Bingman, Ph.D.
--This article gives a better understanding of Silicon and Diatoms. It also debunks many myths that are associated with it. It does not mention anything about Silica Sand, but should still be read.
--Silica Sand contains Quartz Crystal (SiO2) and as quoted here: "The other extreme end of silicate hydration is quartz, SiO2, which could be thought of as completely dehydrated Si(OH)4. Quartz is the least soluble form of silicon found in nature." Although Silicic Acid can easily be used by diatoms.
--Just because you may use an RO unit does not mean that you are completely eliminating silicon, diatoms, or both in your aquarium: "So, silicic acid passes through many reverse osmosis (nanofiltration) membranes fairly readily. Some newer membranes have higher rejection rates than older cellulose triacetate (CTA) or thin film composite (TFC) membranes, and they are available on the aquarium market." Luckily an RO/DI unit should eliminate various silicon forms.
--For those that are concerned about keeping specific organisms such as sponges: "Diatoms are the main consumers of silicate in the ocean, followed by sponges and a number of protist groups. Some higher organisms have small requirements for silicon, which will be described later."
--Tap water can be a leading cause of silicon forms and even diatom outbreaks: "“Mean tap water” has a composition similar to “mean river water” and the concentration of silicate in mean river water is about 40 times higher than the silicate concentration in surface seawater in the tropics. So, here is our first problem and one that the aquarium community seems quite familiar with: Some tap water is loaded with silicate and it can certainly promote diatom blooms in reef tanks."
--Because I don't want to take up much time, definitely read all of the topic "Silicon and Aquarium Husbandry" with a main focus on paragraphs 1-4

Silica in Reef Aquariums by Randy Holmes-Farley
--This article does talk about Silica Sand in the Reef Aquarium
--It looks like soluble silica is easily taken care of: "I’ll also show with dosing experiments that soluble silica is rapidly depleted from my reef tank (about 50% per day)."
--Randy did tests on a few different sands and here were his conclusions: "From these experiments, I conclude that: 1. The “silica” play sand that I purchased from Home Depot can substantially raise the dissolved silica concentration in seawater. 2. The dissolvable portion of the silica sand cannot be completely removed by several rinses with either fresh or salt water, although it may be decreased somewhat by that process. 3. Southdown calcium carbonate sand (likely aragonite) can release soluble silica, but about ten fold less than the “silica” sand."
--Here is where a bunch of speculation occurs between aquarists: "Is it OK to use silica sand? Probably. Many people do so. I also believe that not all “silica “ sands will be the same for the reasons described above relating to processing of the sand and the nature of the mineral inclusions present. So the fact that many people successfully use some (or many) types of silica sand does not necessarily imply that all people can use any type of “silica” sand without a problem. "
--Randy dosed soluble silica in his tank and this is his conclusions: "From these experiments, I conclude that: 1. Silica can be a limiting factor for diatom growth in some reef tanks 2. Adding soluble silica can increase diatom growth 3. The increased diatom growth was not apparently in addition to, but in place of, green algae growth 4. Added soluble silica is rapidly depleted from some reef tanks 5. Taken together, these facts suggest that silica supplementation may be desirable."

These two articles show that, yes, silica sand can leech soluble silica back into the aquarium, but not at a concentration higher than natural sea water. It also shows that silica is quickly and easily consumed by marine organisms and their sacrifice feeds other marine organisms or is readily skimmed out. Silica dosing is recommended by Randy Holmes-Farley. The dosage amount of silica is close to that of what is dissolved out of the silica sand. Silica is already in our tap water, can be in our RO water, is most likely not in our RO/DI water, and is even in our synthetic salt mixes. One illustrations shows that RC (assumed to be Reef Crystals) is actually far above natural seawater in soluble and insoluble silica. It is believed that not all silica sands will dissolve the same amount of silica. Diatoms are a large consumer of silica, but most herbivorous snails actually consume diatoms and so should readily be controllable if sufficient thought and planning is taken.

In short, Silica Sand is safe to use, but your milage may vary. In my opinion, using a silica sand most likely can add an extra "cycle" in a reef tank. Almost all new reef tanks go through the nitrogen cycle, a cyanobacteria cycle, and an algae cycle. Adding silica sand just might add a diatom cycle if there aren't enough organisms to compete with diatoms


Insane Reefer: If I can manage to thin out some projects, I'll do your experiment. I need to do about 4 MJMods tonight and about 7 moonlight fixtures. That should free up workbench space and time to work on rocks in the near future. I'll post my results ASAP. It would be nice if this works since the rocks will go in my 75g tank :D
 
I just got back from the feedstore, getting more shell and sand.

Will cast my testers tonight, and bake them Wednesday morning.

It is important to follow the schedule as closely as possible, to gauge the time periods, etc.

Anyone else interested, please PM me so I can track you down for test results, if needed ;)

ANd Travis, who is Boomer? (other than a hot asian girl on Battlestar Galactica?) Would you give him/her a heads up/intro for me?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9938365#post9938365 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
Almost all new reef tanks go through the nitrogen cycle, a cyanobacteria cycle, and an algae cycle.

That's odd - I always seem to get the diatoms first, then green algae, then cyano...
Is the order you give the typical order?
 
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