Time for a new reg

[SeaJayInSC]

Well, if you don't mind using christo lube, you can get an atomic 1st stage that is sealed.

I use Christo in all of my regs, every time. In fact, you won't see any silicone around my shop at all.

Do you mean that you can seal up an Atomics reg by filling it full of Christo Lube? Effectively, that's right, but what you get is a gooey, sticky mess... Full of silt and saltwater that's stuck to the Christo.

Why manufacturers are still making piston firsts, I don't know. There's simply no reason any more why not to seal every first stage.

Diaphragms last longer, too... And go longer between services (not that I'm recommending that, mind you...)

 

[tgreene]

Tim has a set of Mares - brand new ones, now covered in epoxy. He can give you an educated review on them.

Actually those were Cressi regs... Cressi-Sub Ellipse Titanium/Alaska to be exact.

I loved that they breathed so well, but then I sold em and bought the HOGs which blow em away in just about every way imaginable! I did keep 1 of them actually to use as my hookah'd work reg for tank diving.

-Tim

 

[divewithus]

I use Christo in all of my regs, every time. In fact, you won't see any silicone around my shop at all.

Do you mean that you can seal up an Atomics reg by filling it full of Christo Lube?

I know that there is an option on atomic regs (not sure if it's just some models or all models) to order it with an environmentally sealed 1st stage and with those, you need to use the christo when servicing them.

Since pretty much all the reg I'm looking at have tuning knobs, if I wind up getting one with it, it'll be interesting to see if I wind up using it on dives.

The only time my omega free flowed was usually getting back on a boat and even that wasn't too often. All I would do it just shake it once or twice and it stopped. Fortunately, I never had problems during a dive.

 

[SeaJayInSC]

I know that there is an option on atomic regs (not sure if it's just some models or all models) to order it with an environmentally sealed 1st stage and with those, you need to use the christo when servicing them.

That's cool... I didn't know that. So you can modify the Atomics (presumably with an Atomics kit) for cold or contaminated water?

...It leaves the question, "Why don't they just sell the reg with the kit in place as a cold/contaminated capable regulator?"

Even in clear freshwater, there's contaminants in the water that end up in the reg. Why deal with them when you can have a sealed reg that keeps all the gunk out?

With the adjustments, you might find a happy medium, and you might tune up or tune down for your specific needs - but whatever you do, it'll be available to you for you to fiddle with and get the perfect-breathing reg all the time.

When you take the reg from 80* water and then the next weekend dive in 60* water, it throws the adjustments off that it came with from the factory or your technician. With the knobs, you can tune it to your liking and overcome any issues brought about by the temperature change.

I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to be able to make adjustments "on the fly."

 

[divewithus]

That's cool... I didn't know that. So you can modify the Atomics (presumably with an Atomics kit) for cold or contaminated water?

...It leaves the question, "Why don't they just sell the reg with the kit in place as a cold/contaminated capable regulator?"

Because it costs more to service a reg that requires the christo lube and there are a lot of people out there that would prefer not to have that added service expense, especially if they don't dive cold water or only dive a few times a year.

Am not sure if they sell the kits or not, but do know that you can order the reg with the sealed 1st stage. Not sure what the price difference is but would guess it's maybe $50 +/- not much.


[/QUOTE]When you take the reg from 80* water and then the next weekend dive in 60* water, it throws the adjustments off that it came with from the factory or your technician. With the knobs, you can tune it to your liking and overcome any issues brought about by the temperature change.

I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to be able to make adjustments "on the fly."[/QUOTE]

I, for one, have no intention of every diving water below 72 degrees again unless I hit a thermocline! :jester::jester:

I just got back from one of the lds in my area where I tried an atomic reg in the pool. Obviously you can't tell how it breathes in a pool but I wanted to see what it felt like to use something other than a side exhaust and all I can say.... it felt WEIRD!!! The bubbles kept tickling my ears and I wanted to brush them away. I have been told that after a dive or two I won't notice it but..... I am really going to see if there are still parts out there somewhere to have my 2nd rebuilt.

Have no problem going out and buying a new first stage, matter of fact, I want to but would love to be able to pair my omega with it if possible.... guess I really am a creature of habit. :lol:

 

[SeaJayInSC]

Because it costs more to service a reg that requires the christo lube and there are a lot of people out there that would prefer not to have that added service expense, especially if they don't dive cold water or only dive a few times a year.

Christo Lube is an oxygen-compatible lubricant... Effectively, silicone that doesn't burn.

Christo allows you to mix nitrox and trimix - other than that, there's no advantage to Christo.

A tube of silicone for servicing your regs might cost $3-$4. A pair of tubes of Christo is about $15 - so the difference is about $7.50 for a tube of Christo vs. $3.50 for a tube of silicone.

When doing any work on a regulator - be it overhauling or installing a modification kit - you could use either silicone or Christo. If you want a reg capable of being used with oxygen concentrations of more than 40%, then you'd use the Christo.

...So there should not be any significant expense difference. The only difference should be the cost of the modification kit... Which wouldn't be sold seperately as a modification kit if Atomics would include it on all of their regs like they should.

Am not sure if they sell the kits or not, but do know that you can order the reg with the sealed 1st stage. Not sure what the price difference is but would guess it's maybe $50 +/- not much.

Yeah, not much - like six tubes of Christo, plus tax.

The tubes last years, by the way, and that's assuming that you've got several regs to rebuild every year.

I, for one, have no intention of every diving water below 72 degrees again unless I hit a thermocline! :jester::jester:

Yeah, but that's like saying, "I don't see the need to have a heater in my car, because I never drive when the temperature falls below 65*." It's not like there's some sort of advantage to NOT having a heater in your car... Why not just have it in case? It's not like the deletion of a heater in your car is going to streamline your car or make it lighter, faster, prettier, or more fuel efficient.

Similarly, why would a company sell a reg that is going to get contaminated, even if you're in the purest of water? Why not simply seal it up and make a decent, quality product? What's it cost - like an extra 50 cents for the diaphragm?

I just got back from one of the lds in my area where I tried an atomic reg in the pool. Obviously you can't tell how it breathes in a pool but I wanted to see what it felt like to use something other than a side exhaust and all I can say.... it felt WEIRD!!! The bubbles kept tickling my ears and I wanted to brush them away. I have been told that after a dive or two I won't notice it but..... I am really going to see if there are still parts out there somewhere to have my 2nd rebuilt.

Hood. Keeps the fish from munching your hair and ears anyway.

Have no problem going out and buying a new first stage, matter of fact, I want to but would love to be able to pair my omega with it if possible.... guess I really am a creature of habit. :lol:

That'll probably work just fine. Most first stages have an intermmediate pressure of 120-140 psi, which should operate your Omega second stage just fine.

Apeks DS4 first stages sell for something like $150 from Scubastore. Problem solved, and it's a high quality, sealed diaphragm first stage.

 

[divewithus]

OK... first you service your regs so the cost between the 2 different lubes is minimal. However, when you have the lds service it, they add anywhere from 20-40 more for the service so you wind up paying $80-100 to have your reg services... outrageous but a simple fact of life that those of us who are rec divers have to put up with if we don't chose to service our own.

Again, maybe not a big deal for some but it does add up over time.

Interesting analogy you made for getting a sealed 1st stage. :bounce3:

On the other hand, you don't pay extra for the heater in your car, in the case of the atomic reg, you do pay extra for the sealed first... therefore making a case to eliminate atomic from consideration and continue to look at aqualung, apeks or mares... or even hog. :lolspin:

As for the bubbles if I have to get a normal 2nd I'll just have to get used to them.... I can't stand wearing a hood. I bought a neoprene scap to wear when diving Lembeh because of all the crap (excuse me... muck) in the water there but didn't like wearing that either...just don't like to have something covering my ears or around my neck.

Broke down this past October and bought a bare progressice 3/2 for the cool Fiji waters and kept pulling it away from my neck during the dives.... finally did get used to wearing a wetsuit and actually like it... but find that I continue to pull it away from my neck off and on while diving. However, compared to the custom 7mil suit I had made back in 1988, this one is comfortable!!

Hopefully I will hear good new on Monday.... but either way, won't be doing anything until after I get back from my Cozumel trip in March. My next trip out after that isn't until June so it gives me plenty of time.... or, since I am sooooo good at procrastination, I will see if anything new is shown at DEMA. Rumor has it that hollis may bring back a side exhaust.

 

[SeaJayInSC]

OK... first you service your regs so the cost between the 2 different lubes is minimal. However, when you have the lds service it, they add anywhere from 20-40 more for the service so you wind up paying $80-100 to have your reg services... outrageous but a simple fact of life that those of us who are rec divers have to put up with if we don't chose to service our own.

Yeah, when I have mine serviced by someone else (too busy lately running the company to do it myself) parts kits usually run about $25, and the labor about $20, per stage. I ususally take that time to change old, worn hoses and spgs.

The bottom line is that usually a good rebuild (with Christo) for a full set of regs usually runs me about $150 - maybe $200 if I replace certain things.

For me, it's a writeoff, so I don't worry about it.

I do NOT stick to the manufacturer's recommendations for servicing. I only service my regs when they start to show wear, get clogged, begin to show a little corrosion, or work "sticky." For me, that's about every other year, and I'm diving my regs nearly every day.

If I was sticking to manufacturer's recommendations, I'd be rebuilding once a month because of all of the dive hours.

That said, if a reg begins to do something a little odd, I can always fix it in the field - so I don't worry about everything being perfect every dive. If I were a recreational-only diver, I'd probably be a little more conservative about it and basically send my regs off once a year.

All of that said, my doubles rig has it's own immaculately-cared-for set of regs that I insist on being perfect. These are what I use for caving and wrecking.

With all of the diving I've done, and presumably all of the "abuse" my regs have taken, I've never once had a reg failure, save for a first stage that would not keep it's intermmediate pressure because of a terrible job a local dive shop did in rebuilding during service - best as I can tell, they scratched a seat, which prevented the first stage from sealing properly.

I don't know for sure, since I sent the regs back to the place where I bought them - Leisurepro - and got a 100% credit after a year's use on the regs - and purchased a set of Apeks regs. The ones I returned were ScubaPro regs, and mostly made of plastic internal components... Which were very easy to scratch with a pick while removing an O-ring.

$80 for a full service? That's pretty good, actually... Are you sure they're doing a good job and really replacing all that they're supposed to replace during service?

On the other hand, you don't pay extra for the heater in your car, in the case of the atomic reg, you do pay extra for the sealed first... therefore making a case to eliminate atomic from consideration and continue to look at aqualung, apeks or mares... or even hog. :lolspin:

I didn't even know it was an option. Since the two styles of first stage are very different from each other, I'm curious about this "kit" that you can buy that seals a piston (unsealed) regulator.

Are you sure it's not simply a different model first? I haven't seen Atomics offer a sealed diaphragm first stage, but that's the only logical way I can see getting a sealed diaphragm first stage from any manufacturer.

I know of some people who will fill their unsealed regs with silicone or Christolube, in an effort to "seal" their piston regs. Predictably, what the end up with is a sticky, gooey mess inside of their first stage.

As for the bubbles if I have to get a normal 2nd I'll just have to get used to them.... I can't stand wearing a hood. I bought a neoprene scap to wear when diving Lembeh because of all the crap (excuse me... muck) in the water there but didn't like wearing that either...just don't like to have something covering my ears or around my neck.

I used to feel the same way, so I can relate. I found that some hoods fit better than others. You sure that your opinion of hoods isn't simply based on one or two poor-fitting models?

ScubaPro makes a nice-fitting hood, and O'Neill makes a nice-fitting hood... But that's just my fat head.

Poseidon makes a variety of side-exhaust regs... I'm not a fan of side-exhaust for a couple of reasons, including the fact that, if they fail, they fail closed... Which is the opposite of how most second stages will fail. But if you're a fan, I've heard great things about Poseidon's JetStream Odin regs.

They're what many "technical" divers like, and are the required second stages on many full-faced masks, such as the AGA mask... Which is widely used.

The bottom line is that you don't have to forego a side-exhaust if that's what you really want.

I like to think of "normal" regs as TWIN side exhaust regs... The bubbles come out of whichever side is higher. With a (single) side exhaust, it always vents on one side, and if that's the low side, you wash yourself in bubbles.

That said, side exhausts usually vent waaaay out on one side, which is apparently your attraction to them... Keeping them off of your face and ears.

If you want that, then yeah, they're still quite available: http://www.divers-supply.com/-P4346...ium=cpc&utm_campaign=froogle&utm_content=4346

Broke down this past October and bought a bare progressice 3/2 for the cool Fiji waters and kept pulling it away from my neck during the dives.... finally did get used to wearing a wetsuit and actually like it... but find that I continue to pull it away from my neck off and on while diving. However, compared to the custom 7mil suit I had made back in 1988, this one is comfortable!!

Oh yeah... Neoprene technology has come a long way in the past couple of years.

I wish my concept of "cool" was a 3/2 suit.

Hopefully I will hear good new on Monday.... but either way, won't be doing anything until after I get back from my Cozumel trip in March. My next trip out after that isn't until June so it gives me plenty of time.... or, since I am sooooo good at procrastination, I will see if anything new is shown at DEMA. Rumor has it that hollis may bring back a side exhaust.

From what I've seen of Hollis gear, it looks to be pretty good stuff.

...But Poseidon's the king manufacturer of side exhausts. Clearly, any other name brand would be either a duplicate, knockoff, or an attempt at one or the other.

 

[divewithus]

I've had the same person service my reg since I bought it and he really does a great job. A lot of other people I know from other dive shops actually send bring regs to him when it's time for service. He always gives you all the old parts back when you pick up your reg. I think one of the reasons I have never had a problem with mine until now (and it's just that I feel it just doesn't seem to breather as easy as it used to) is because he really knows his stuff!

He's really honest as well, even though he works for a lds... I bring my reg in every year and he only does a full service when he feels it is necessary so it runs anywhere between 40-87 depending on what needs to be replaced. I like to think I'm worth the $$ to stay breathing.

Went to the atomic site and found this under their product section about their 1st stages: Optional environmental seal kit for freeze protection at low temperatures.

I think if you go to scubastore or some local dealer you can get more info about that.

Have looked into poseidon regs before but they're really expensive to maintain as well as difficult to find someone to work on them depending on where I travel to.... actually, the guy that is going to try and see if he can rebuild my 2nd dives with one, along with several other regs depending on if he is diving doubles, trimix, etc.

You can use a miflex hose but you still need an adaptor for them. I use an aqualung mouthpiece... the one that has the lip that fits over your upper front teeth instead of biting down in the back, and they're really difficult to fit on the barrel of the jetstream. However, he says he can do it as he uses the same mouthpiece. However to make all the modifications to it will run almost $150 above and beyond the price of the reg! Just really doesn't make sense since in my situation. It would be easier and cheaper for me to just get used to the bubbles. :lol::lol:

I didn't realize that leisurepro would actually warranty any of their regs. If they replaced one for you after a year that's saying a lot! They have pretty good pricing on some of them. Did they give you any argument when you told them there was a problem with the reg or did they simply tell you to just send it back for credit? Bought my dive rite harness from them but then, there's not much that can go wrong with a harness. :lolspin:

 

[SeaJayInSC]

He's really honest as well, even though he works for a lds... I bring my reg in every year and he only does a full service when he feels it is necessary so it runs anywhere between 40-87 depending on what needs to be replaced. I like to think I'm worth the $$ to stay breathing.

Wow... Wish I had someone like that locally... I'd bring him regs every month at that price.

Went to the atomic site and found this under their product section about their 1st stages: Optional environmental seal kit for freeze protection at low temperatures.

I wasn't able to find any more information about it... But I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Have looked into poseidon regs before but they're really expensive to maintain as well as difficult to find someone to work on them depending on where I travel to.... actually, the guy that is going to try and see if he can rebuild my 2nd dives with one, along with several other regs depending on if he is diving doubles, trimix, etc.

You can use a miflex hose but you still need an adaptor for them. I use an aqualung mouthpiece... the one that has the lip that fits over your upper front teeth instead of biting down in the back, and they're really difficult to fit on the barrel of the jetstream. However, he says he can do it as he uses the same mouthpiece. However to make all the modifications to it will run almost $150 above and beyond the price of the reg! Just really doesn't make sense since in my situation. It would be easier and cheaper for me to just get used to the bubbles. :lol::lol:

Wowch - $150 just to get the mouthpiece you want? Even I'd have a difficult time swallowing that one - and I write this stuff off.

I also am a fan of the "Comfo-Bite" mouthpieces... But for $150, I'd select another option.

I didn't realize that leisurepro would actually warranty any of their regs. If they replaced one for you after a year that's saying a lot!

Whoo, yeah it does. The regs I returned were ScubaPro regs. For what it's worth, ScubaPro is totally anti-internet and especially anti-Leisurepro, who represents the largest internet dealer of scuba gear.

Leisurepro warrantys all of the gear they sell... Either with a manufacturer's warranty, or if a manufacturer with their head up their asses (like ScubaPro) won't warranty (illegal, but still practiced by some criminal companies), Leisurepro takes over with a warranty that's superior to any manufacturer's warranty anyway.

A 100% refund after a year's use is impressive. I paid another $100 or so and purchased a new set of Apeks regs from them.

I can't tell you enough good things about Leisurepro - they've been, by far, better to me than any LDS... And Leisurepro IS actually an LDS in NYC - they're just super-sharp and market globally on the web.

They have pretty good pricing on some of them. Did they give you any argument when you told them there was a problem with the reg or did they simply tell you to just send it back for credit?

They told me to send them back so that they could see if they could fix them. After about two weeks, I got a phone call from a manager who said to me, "We've looked at fixing them, and it'll cost us more to fix them than it would to simply replace them. Before we send you a new set, we figured we'd give you the option to replace them with another brand." I was thrilled, of course, to get rid of the problem regs and elect a better-made regulator.

Bought my dive rite harness from them but then, there's not much that can go wrong with a harness. :lolspin:

Highly recommended, Leisurepro. Another recommended Apeks dealer is DiveInn Scubastore... Spain's leading Apeks dealer. Their prices are fantastic, and delivery is the same (in terms of time and cost) from them as it is in most places in the US.

 

[divewithus]

Wowch - $150 just to get the mouthpiece you want? Even I'd have a difficult time swallowing that one - and I write this stuff off.

I also am a fan of the "Comfo-Bite" mouthpieces... But for $150, I'd select another option.


Highly recommended, Leisurepro. Another recommended Apeks dealer is DiveInn Scubastore... Spain's leading Apeks dealer. Their prices are fantastic, and delivery is the same (in terms of time and cost) from them as it is in most places in the US.

The extra $$ for the poseidon was to add the adaptors so I can use my miflex hoses, use it with a yoke and for whatever it was he did so that I could put the comfobite mouthpiece on the jetstream barrel.

If I can't get my second rebuilt I am wondering is I can just buy the new jetstream mk3 and put it on some other first as well.... but have a feeling it just might not be worth the hassle.

 

[divewithus]

HAve you heard of Dynamo regs? They're built by Advanced Diving Systems. They offer a side exhaust

http://www.dynamodiving.com/html/body_dynamo_regulators.html

http://www.scubagoo.com/scuba-divin...ammerhead-bottom-exhaust-scuba-regulator.html

 

[SeaJayInSC]

HAve you heard of Dynamo regs? They're built by Advanced Diving Systems.

No, I haven't. Always interesting to see something that I haven't seen before.

They offer a side exhaust

Where?

 

[divewithus]

Went to their website and checked out the info on their side exhaust. It appears to be very similar to the kronos in that the tee comes off to the same side as the hose.... which in my opinion, is not a true side exhaust.

It's a sealed piston 1st but the specs for the 1st and 2nds (what little they offer on the site) are interesting.

Will be sticking to a tried and true company but it is always nice to read about new gear.

 

[SeaJayInSC]

Went to their website and checked out the info on their side exhaust. It appears to be very similar to the kronos in that the tee comes off to the same side as the hose.... which in my opinion, is not a true side exhaust.

Ah, I gotcha. Got a link?

It's a sealed piston 1st but the specs for the 1st and 2nds (what little they offer on the site) are interesting.

A what? Sealed piston first? Got a link?

Will be sticking to a tried and true company but it is always nice to read about new gear.

Yeah, no doubt! New gear is always cool...

 

[divewithus]

A what? Sealed piston first? Got a link?..

http://www.dynamodiving.com/html/body_technical_information1.html

 

[SeaJayInSC]

http://www.dynamodiving.com/html/body_technical_information1.html

Very cool... Looks like a quality unit!

 

[divewithus]

I will have my "new" reg by next week! :bounce3::bounce3::bounce3:

The guy at the lds was able to get a whole new rebuild kit for my omega from oceanic and it is now being shipped to the store. He is going to service my 1st stage so, for the time being, I won't have to get another one.

However I will most likely get an apeks 1st stage (or something even lighter) later on down the line and have the other as a backup.

He also told me that he spoke to Bob Hollis about bringing back the omega under the hollis name since it would be the only other servo-assist reg to compete with poseidon....and Bob is seriously going to think about it. If that happens, then I know I won't have problems getting parts for it for a long, long time to come. :bounce2::bounce2:

This is perfect timing as I leave for Cozumel on the 6th and then head over to dive cenotes with Dennis from diablo divers on the 12th.

 

[SeaJayInSC]

Very cool! Congratuations...

Why do you want a "light" regulator?

 

[divewithus]

Very cool! Congratuations...

Why do you want a "light" regulator?

Because all my diving involves flying someplace to do it! :spin2:

Taking a group to Cozuzmel 3/6 and then taking a group to Dominica 6/21.

Not sure where the next group trips will be to but do know they'll be outside the US.

I don't take a lot of stuff with me but every little bit of weight that I can shave off my checked luggage and carry on bag helps!