tiny zoanthid syndrome

[whodah]

hey all!

i was experiencing the 'tiny zoanthid syndrome' in my work tank. i.e. all of my polyps became tiny. (like 2-3mm instead of 5-6mm for instance) they also were not open near enough. i was using water from my work (an analytical laboratory) that went through a DI and millipore filtration system. (laboratory grade water - cleaner in uS than my spectrapure 2000)

i added a skimmer, a deltec MCE6000 and started 'trucking in' water from home for water changes and top off.

the skimmer is not in use (it's too big for my little 13G work tank) so it's been off for a couple months now. (i'll use it on another tank down the road).

so the only thing that's changed is that i've started to use water from my home source which actually tests 'less pure' than the water at the lab.

but guess what? the zoanthids are opening up more and regaining size!



so - for future people that search on 'tiny zoanthid syndrome' or are experiencing it, you might consider changing your water source a while to see if it helps. bum some off a friend, get it at a diff. LFS, whatever.

i started noticing a difference about 3 weeks latter, i'm about 2 months into it now and notice MAJOR improvements (although not 100% recovery -- yet...)

no guarantees that it'll solve your problem of course, but worth a shot!

i was and am using IO salt the entire time. do water changes ~ once a week or two.

HTH someone down the road!

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Hmmm... I can believe it.

I started using carbon more regularly and also started using phosphate remover recently and have been seeing seeing TZS

My SPS have been looking better though. Grrr... now I have to figure out what to do for my zoas... lps too

 

[surfnvb7]

so are you saying TZS is caused by water with more nutrients? or less nutrients? i think i am also having this problem. some zoas i've gotten from other people are my smaller in my tank than in their tanks.

i thought it prob has something to do with being under much more intense light. but, i totally forgot to change out my pre-RO carbon filters in my RO/DI. prob the reason for a phosphate outbreak associated with hair algae. and noticed the TZS so i figured it must be something due to either water quality or lighting.

 

[whodah]

surfnvb7: hrm... not sure i'm willing to commit to either of the 'less or more nutrients' scenario. although the lab water tested cleaner, we're talking about really clean RO/DI water to start w/.

here are some more specifics:

the lab has to be under (i think) 1 uS and is tested daily. it typically tests out around 0.4-0.5 uS. this water is DI water and then run through a UV and other filtration provided by milipore.

my water out of my spectrapure 2000 tested out at 0.8 uS. this is RO and dual DI water.

but - this is long before salt is added or the water is 'aged' or whatever in my tank. or 'contaminated' w/ nutrients so to speak.

same lighting, same flow, same salt, same everything, just a different water source. (i did toy w/ that skimmer, but it has not been up and running for months now. and i did not yet have the skimmer when using the lab's water.)

so i'm not sure i'm willing to commit it to a nutrient purity issue in this case, but think it is/was "something in the water". even though in uS it tests cleaner, i think there's something in it that the zoas don't like!

i can see how that conclusion could be derived... but i personally typically think of nutrient issues as overfeeding or under water-changing or over/under skimming type of thing. when the RO or RO/DI water starts that clean in both scenarios (most people strive to keep it under like 2 uS w/ their home equipment, right? correct me if i'm wrong.) i'm not sure we can chalk it up to a nutrient conclusion.

thoughts?

 

[whodah]

oh - also... i was PM'ed and wanted to do a little clarification on TZS (nice name for it btw Mr. Ugly!)

i was experiencing TZS as a whole w/ this tank. i.e. these zoas are from my home tank and started 'large' (5-6mm, typical zoa size), healthy, and fully opening. and we're talking about maybe 30 or so morphs btw.

as a whole, w/ few exception, about 25 of these morphs were shrinking (not receeding though...) and not opening all day.

some zoanthids are tiny to begin w/ though just by there very nature. i'm referring in this case to an entire tank where the general zoanthid population started shinking in physical size consistently.

and i can only hope that this helps someone else out down the road by suggesting a consideration to a water source change. i'm sure there are other things that can cause this as Mr. Ugly pointed out too. but the more we know...

 

[CoralNutz]

It's going to be ok whodah... It's not the size of the polyp that counts... It's how you aquascape them. :lol:

 

[ScotchMaster]

IME I have found that zoas like more of a nutrient rich water than a super clean system...

 

[greenstarman]

Hence the term filter feeders?

 

[whodah]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7376862#post7376862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CoralNutz
It's going to be ok whodah... It's not the size of the polyp that counts... It's how you aquascape them. :lol:

lol, OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!

so.... what if i have my friends help me aquascape. then what?

:lol:

don't answer that...

 

[surfnvb7]

yeah, i understand about the borderline nutrient issue. i know exactly what you mean by TSZ. i dont think alot of people understand that though b/c they just think some are normally smaller than others. i know for a fact i have this going on in my tank.

i have VERY low nutrients in my tank. other than a phosphate / silicate outbreak i think i had from moving my tank. but that could have been due to bad RO/DI filters.

i wonder if it may have something to do with "some chemical" the water treatment plant puts in the water, that maybe the RO/DI doesn't catch. i beleive i was told that the RO/DI takes out chloramine and chemicals like it...so i dunno. for every town, the towns water treatment center could put totally different chemicals in the water than the next town over.

maybe its an ultranutrient low combination with very bright (or new) bulbs.

as far as carbon goes, i noticed my zoas lighten up, and shrink a bit last year when i added some carbon temporarily to clear up some cyano. my recent TSZ problem i wasn't running any sort of carbon filtration.

i am however skimming very very very wet (only 1 clown fish in a 30g+20g). mostly b/c i have a hair algae issue i cant put my finger on (no nitrates, no amonia, no phosphates, no silicates). its really strange b/c the hair algae has gota be feeding off of something. i've heard of salt being contaminated some times and algae outbreaks after large water changes. i changed about 75% water volume when i moved the tank...so maybe that too...no clue really, only a bunch of assumptions here.

 

[Mr. Ugly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7380050#post7380050 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
as far as carbon goes, i noticed my zoas lighten up, and shrink a bit last year when i added some carbon temporarily to clear up some cyano.

The greens and purples faded on my zoas after I ran carbon 24/7 for a several weeks. I yanked the carbon this morning.

 

[surfnvb7]

here are some good pics showing what my RPE's looked like when I ran carbon for a little bit...

it may be hard to see, but the RPE's in this picture are much more transparent like... (i'm thinking the carbon must have stripped an outer mucus membrane that protected them from intense light).

this is what they look like now.