Topic of Discussion

[Unarce]

Originally posted by tfp
i see nothing wrong in asking what you paid for the coral to begin with or what its current market value is. if i've raised the coral from a $50 frag, why shouldn't i be able to ask $50 for a frag if its healthy, used to tank conditions, holding its color and growing. that is where i take the most pride in my reef...95% of my corals started as tank-raised 1" frags (and some still are 1" frags!)

all marketing and LE-hype aside, but i think also fair because of all the risks you endure in just keeping a reef. such luck or skills to avoid deadly power failures, temp/alk/sg swings, stings/rashes, stn/rtn events, pathogens, pests, failed/malfunctioning equipment and their results is hard to put a cost on.

speaking of costs, this thread really got me thinking about how much it costs me to run my 300g reef annually and it was rather discouraging. i just did a rough calculation and it wasn't pretty
so why not sell a few frags now and then to minimize the damage.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, Tim.

This kind of thread pops up every once in awhile. I find it somewhat rude when someone suggests how others should spend their money because things have gotten too expensive for them. Fortunately, I don't get offended anymore for buying 'ridiculously expensive frags'. I also buy Charmin so I don't scratch my butt with the Costco stuff.

That would be like you turning around and telling people they're too cheap to buy stuff that isn't brown.

 

[FunGuy]

Everyone's perspective is definitely very individual and based on where they stand economically. I think most of us can agree we would prefer the prices to be lower.

Though everyone has an opinion, some are more accurate than others...

Edwin, you'll need to elaborate on on your perspective and how you came up with it. It's definitely a unique one.

 

[loup]

I have the costco stuff =( but the charming are in the master bathroom =)

Its all supply and demand. I'll prefer to get something that's tank raised and guarantee to live and hold colors. It gets dishearthen to see a wild colony take a dump and die on you. $50 wild colony to a $70 tank raised, I'll give my extra $20 for alittle more reassurance.

Also consider the cost one put in growing these corals from frag. My electric bill ain't cheap and the yearly replacement bulbs hurts my wallet.

 

[Nu2SW]

Depending on where you live things can be cheaper then other states.

Like in the arkansas, they dont have such a vast ability to get goods in cheap from wholesellers.

We have the bay area and L.A where stores can drive down and hand pick what they want. As to where a store in arkansas has to order via a phone or web and they have to pay more shipping. Which entail they pass onto there customers.

BUT since they live somewhere that doesn't have a vast choice and competition. They crank up there prices. But that also goes to what mike and others are saying.

"The store has the goods, they set the price." People might not know that there are other places with cheaper goods. Even online if they band together and do a group order. The store doesnt sell, they lower there price or loose money and business.


I hope that makes sense. IM very tired right now and at work. My brain is shutting down on me.

 

[DarkDevil]

ok, with all those said, is anyone going to sell me a 1"purple monster for $20 or 5 polyp of PPE for $20? exactly, I don't think so

do whatever you feel like doing and keep it that way, there are always ppl from both sides. if everybody agrees to one point, this world wouldn't be spinning anymore. there will always be a lot of things in the world that you don't like or agrees to, all I can say is, suck it up, get in or get out. just always be happy, that's what life is about, not fighting with everything everyday. just my stupid $.02

 

[JeffReef]

Interesting thread.

I, too, would like some of the coral prices to be cheaper. The prices of some Zoanthids such as the PPE, Nuclear Green and Purple Deaths are just way out there- up to $50 per polyp. But that's the going price of these corals and there's nothing wrong with that. The market usually takes care of it self.

My whining starts when I could not afford the corals that I want. But I could not blame the Seller's pricing nor the market. I could only blame myself for having a thin wallet.

 

[dots]

Though its run around the same topic......I would like to comment on the original post and in part add my understanding to it all.

I am curious, you say your frustrated at the current state of things and I would like to know what specificaly you are talking about. You were obviously irrated about something, and maybe that we should discuss that specific point?

You mentioned coral growing in price from realativly inexpensive to extreme prices in you 15 years. You make this statement as if there are no corals within reach of a casual or "newbie" collector.

(BTW guys $140 for a half inch of Tyree Purple Monster last I checked at Atlantis. If they had a piece!!!)

That statement leads me to think that you are interested in a specific piece that is popular and have suffered from a case of "sticker shock", is that the case? As I will touch on the previous, there are plenty of options, (I will use the SPS market specificly because it is an excellent example of this topic), ranging from wild, aqua cultured pieces, and tank raised varietals. You are correct, there is a portion of this hobby that has gone to the extreme, but it is not a slippery slope and not all are $140 per half inch. So I am a little confused by your frustration here. There are alternatives that often look the same but do not hold the same prices, if your not in it for the lineage or the name.

Is growing a coral to fraggable size that I purchased for ohhh $100 dollars per 1/2 inch and then turning a profit to fund my "habit" ethical? I believe if there is someone who feels that it is also worth that and will pay that price is happy with it, I believe it is. As time progresses and the market saturates the prices will eventually drop and the next big thing will be the "flavor of the month"......that right there is a thought for us buying these high priced coral now........it may not be the cash cow you think it is going to be!!!........

I have often given away pieces and usually sell them to MARS members at less than what I paid for them........I am planning on posting some tonight in fact..........There are very few people that I know of who actually make money at this and the rest of us are lucky if we break even.

Why you may ask is this happening.........business my friend.......there are a ton of people who make a living out of this hobby and a limited supply drives demand.....I am finding that the most rare and elusive pieces are the SLOWEST growers..........but I am sure all the baseball fanatics who collected baseball cards because they loved baseball were mad when baseball card prices skyrocketed.

I just recently jumped on this LE bandwagon and it has made the hobby just that more interesting to me. I like hunting the pieces down, knowing just who to ask because you just can't go down to Joe Blow LFS and get them. It puts that much more risk and excitement in it....I dont even want to start adding up how much I have bought in the last couple of months......sure a little ego as well, I like knowing I have the best of the best..........like you would turn down a Ferrari over a Yugo.

But there is more to it as others have mentioed, certain pieces have exhibited over time to be the most colorful or unique pieces....this piece and the brood from it connects all who obtain it.

I collect corals much like a person would collect cars, stamps, baseball cards, houses......you name it. What dictates and who dictates the inherient value is a complicated answer dealing with social trends and dynamics combined with business marketing and economics...........

Why is Gold worth more than Lead? They are both metal are they not?

The real question is WHO determines its rare and WHY?

In addition, you folks live in one of the BEST places in the world to get these pieces.......I for one have pieces that people on the east coast can't get.......and I have 2!!!!! You are seeing the best of the best in high concentration due to our locale......

 

[matttaylor]

i am actually not worried about prices. I prefer softies and lps and i can easily afford the corals i want, however i will never pay more than i think the piece is worth. If someone tells me the coral they have has a "special name" and i can buy a coral that is similar in appearance and color for less, i will buy the lesser priced one most of the time.

I believe that if someone can raise and then sell a "special" coral for profit then by all means go for it. This is America, and they have every right to do so. In fact, these people are what is going to save the natural reefs from over harvesting of wild colonies. The products they sell make a difference in our world and they should be regarded as such.

The whole point of this thread was to invoke conversation and thought. There hasn't been a good thread that provoked such thought and diverse ideas in a while. I felt it was time to make people think about this great hobby in a different light. And look at the quality of all posts we have seen here. I'm actually really pleased at the responses i've drawn from everyone.

 

[Unarce]

Originally posted by matttaylor
I prefer softies and lps

I can understand your frustration here. These are the bread and butter of wholesalers and vendors, and where most of the price gouging exists.

 

[matttaylor]

The gouging does exist, however i see the gouging more with zoo's, ric's, and to the same extent with sps. It really boils down to color, ie superman anything, as well as who named the coral. We all expect to pay more for a Tyree or Tubs, but while you are getting a healthy acclimated stunning coral, i think alot of people are put off by the pricing, and in turn just ooh and ahh over it instead.

 

[Unarce]

Originally posted by matttaylor
The gouging does exist, however i see the gouging more with zoo's, ric's, and to the same extent with sps.

Zoo's and ric's, sure. Hardly with SPS. It's a lot harder for vendors to move SPS, and many don't even bother with it, as it's too much of a pain.

BTW, do you have a full tank shot? Would love to see your tank.

 

[matttaylor]

Here are two from just a few minutes ago, one from one side and another from the better side. The lights just come on, so most things aren't open yet, and excuse the dirty glass, i've been really busy this week, and cleaning will commence today.