Trace element depletion over time and sps polyp extension

[Dolmo5000]

Hello, I have been experiencing something the past few weeks and would like to get some advice on how to proceed. A friend of mine recently gave me a bottle of Kent Coral-Vite and I decided to give it a try. Starting 3 weeks ago I have been dosing the recommended amount once a week. Within 5 minutes of my dosing I observe crazy good polyp extension from my sps. I wasn't even aware that they were capable of extension that good (and it is during the day with lights on). Within 2 hours however the extension begins to reduce and within 24 it is back to how it was before dosing (which is pretty good to start with). After 2 more weeks of observing the exact same reaction I am at a loss for what to do now. I would like to determine what ingredient in the Coral-Vite is so deplete in my tank. This brings up an important point before I go into the kent product. That is, many people suggest that with regular water changes most to all trace elements will be replaced (Ca and Alk and Mag excluded), but I offer this perspective. If I have had my aquarium running for 3 years with regular water changes is it possible that one or more trace elements have become deplete in system? My brain says yes, for sure its possible. Now, if the elements are deplete, a 10% or so water change will never replenish them back to acceptable levels. I have a sneaking suspesion that this phenomenon is occuring more frequently than people identify. Anyways, With the kent Coral-Vite, there are tons of ingredients, several of which I don't want to add to my tank, a few of which i do. How am I to determine which ingredient is making the polyp extension so good, and how do I get its ambient levels back up to good levels? Also, I should mention that when I dose the blue/green liquid I see that my skimate turns blue/green within a few hours. Is this evidence that the skimmer is taking what ever is so good out, or just that the some dye is taken out of the water? Here is a copy of the directions and ingredients. I don't like dosing it because it adds to much iodine (current levels are 0.09 ppm RedSea), and things like calcium and magnesium which I already dose else where. Thanks very much for your thoughts on my problem.

Kent Marine Coral-Vite
Directions for Use:
Add 1 to 2 teaspoons per 50 gallons of aquarium capacity every week depending on animal load (1 capful, or 5 ml = 1 teaspoon). Add directly to aquarium or sump. If you are using a doser, do not dose Coral-Vite from the same container as Kalkwasser.

Ingredients:
Inorganic mineral salts of Barium, Boron, Bromine, Calcium, Cobalt, Fluorine, Iodine, Iron, Lithium, Magnesium, Manganese, Potassium, Rubidium and Strontium; EDTA, Vitamins: L-Ascorbic Acid 2-Sulfate Dipotassium Dihydrate, Vitamin A Propionate, Vitamin A Palmitate, D-Activated animal sterol (Vitamin D3), Folic Acid, Choline Chloride, Niacin, d-Pantothenic Acid, Thiamine (Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12, d-Biotin, Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vitamin K3) in a base containing Deionized Water, inorganic stabilizing compounds, and preservatives.

 

[franklypre]

Skimmers will pull AA out of the water, atleast some of the amount put in will be pulled right back out. I've started dosing AA via my ATO so it is delivered at a constant pace. I dose 2 part and add magnesium via epsom salt every few weeks. So long as you have good color and good growth I wouldn't worry too much about PE.

 

[Duc1098]

Reading my trusty Reef Bible by Delbeek and Sprung, it mentions that Iron and Maganese had and effect on the PE and color of Goniopora. It may be something worth looking into. Let us know how it works out for you.

 

[k_red_raider]

From everything that I have read nobody can pinpoint what exactly makes PE except to feed. As soon as someone develops an additive that keeps PE all day long he/she will be very rich!

 

[Alex T.]

Trace elements are exactly that...trace. Since they're not major elements, a larger than normal water change is much more likely to deliver whatever is lost in a balanced ratio. Throwing all types of liquid and powder concoctions into your aquarium trying to compensate for what you assume you may be losing in trace elements may do more harm than good. Are you testing for all these trace elements to know what is deficient?

From what I'm reading from their own product description, it seems totally unnecessary to use this product. See here:

3) Although Coral-Vite contains strontium and calcium, you should use separate additives for these for a synergistic effect. Tanks with large numbers of soft corals, crustaceans or macro algae will require the Concentrated Iodine or Iron supplements as well. Use Kent Kalkwasser Mix, Concentrated Liquid Calcium, or Turbo-Calcium to supply needed calcium. Use Strontium and Molybdenum or Turbo-Strontium to provide heavy amounts of strontium. Kent Coral-Vite, this product will supply needed rubidium, lithium, barium and other important minerals as well as essential vitamins to the reef. Coral-Vite and Essential Elements are designed to work together in a reef environment.

A decent sized water change with a quality salt mix will provide your tank with all the necessary elements you'll need, while keeping money in your pocket. IMO, you should only be measuring the major elements that are more easily depleted that directly affect coral health and system stability...calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. If you want to see better polyp extension in your SPS, I would look into some quality reef foods like OysterFeast and RotiFeast. There's definitely a feeding response in my SPS when I add this stuff in moderation to my tank.

HTH

 

[MechEng99]

If you want to try to figure it out, I recommend taking daily photos while dosing while not changing any other part of your routine. PE isn't a good indicator of what element is low (at least to our current reefkeeping knowledge), but color is. If you notice your greens improve, then it is probably iron. If your blues improve, it was probably potassium. (Sorry, I don't know all the colors.)

I've started regularly testing for iron, potassium, and iodine (such a pain!) I've found that I can't keep iron up any length of time...and that was one I didn't expect to worry about! My greens are very washed out right now and I can't grow algae to save my life (never thought I'd complain about that either!) So, you may want to think about testing for some of the few elements that have hobbyists-grade kits available.

 

[sirreal63]

Trace elements are exactly that...trace. Since they're not major elements, a larger than normal water change is much more likely to deliver whatever is lost in a balanced ratio. Throwing all types of liquid and powder concoctions into your aquarium trying to compensate for what you assume you may be losing in trace elements may do more harm than good. Are you testing for all these trace elements to know what is deficient?

From what I'm reading from their own product description, it seems totally unnecessary to use this product. See here:

3) Although Coral-Vite contains strontium and calcium, you should use separate additives for these for a synergistic effect. Tanks with large numbers of soft corals, crustaceans or macro algae will require the Concentrated Iodine or Iron supplements as well. Use Kent Kalkwasser Mix, Concentrated Liquid Calcium, or Turbo-Calcium to supply needed calcium. Use Strontium and Molybdenum or Turbo-Strontium to provide heavy amounts of strontium. Kent Coral-Vite, this product will supply needed rubidium, lithium, barium and other important minerals as well as essential vitamins to the reef. Coral-Vite and Essential Elements are designed to work together in a reef environment.

A decent sized water change with a quality salt mix will provide your tank with all the necessary elements you'll need, while keeping money in your pocket. IMO, you should only be measuring the major elements that are more easily depleted that directly affect coral health and system stability...calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. If you want to see better polyp extension in your SPS, I would look into some quality reef foods like OysterFeast and RotiFeast. There's definitely a feeding response in my SPS when I add this stuff in moderation to my tank.

HTH

+1 You realize that these companies are making money by trying to convince you that your tank is deficient and you must have their products to keep your tank healthy. It is pure B.S. and not only is it taking your money, it can also be a cause of tank failure.

 

[Alex T.]

Whenever I've taken a step back and looked at some of the best SPS tanks on these forums, I try and pay attention to what they're doing (maintenance wise) to keep such a beautiful display tank. I notice that I'm doing everything they are, with one exception...I'm usually doing more and messing with it too much.

Every time I dumb it down, stick with the basics and relieve my mind of needing potions to tweak something, I usually find the stability my tank needs instead of always second guessing myself and time tested wisdom. The answers aren't going to be in a bottle, but by keeping things stable. When you see your tank looking great, test your NO3, PO4, Mg, Ca, dKH, temperature, water change schedule, feeding regime, photoperiod, etc. and commit to it. This is where your tank finds balance, and what makes it work. Don't jump on the next thread that shows crazy colors achieved with totally different water parameters and equipment than what you've had success with. A great tank can be achieved with parameters all over the place, but stability is key. Tweaking with good intentions has probably crashed far more tanks than leaving well enough alone and staying the course. Corals take time to grow, color up and settle in. Some will make it and some won't. Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to it. I don't know one person who's never lost an SPS frag, or struggled with color(s) from time to time. These things most of the time work themselves out without us knowing what the heck caused it, but I'm definitely not going to stress the entire system of other corals doing just fine to save one. When you have an issue, check the baseline of what parameters were like when things were doing well. While every tank is different, all the successful ones are stable, with their keeper knowing how each parameter affects their system if it starts to swing.

 

[tmb22]

Whenever I've taken a step back and looked at some of the best SPS tanks on these forums, I try and pay attention to what they're doing (maintenance wise) to keep such a beautiful display tank. I notice that I'm doing everything they are, with one exception...I'm usually doing more and messing with it too much.

Every time I dumb it down, stick with the basics and relieve my mind of needing potions to tweak something, I usually find the stability my tank needs instead of always second guessing myself and time tested wisdom. The answers aren't going to be in a bottle, but by keeping things stable. When you see your tank looking great, test your NO3, PO4, Mg, Ca, dKH, temperature, water change schedule, feeding regime, photoperiod, etc. and commit to it. This is where your tank finds balance, and what makes it work. Don't jump on the next thread that shows crazy colors achieved with totally different water parameters and equipment than what you've had success with. A great tank can be achieved with parameters all over the place, but stability is key. Tweaking with good intentions has probably crashed far more tanks than leaving well enough alone and staying the course. Corals take time to grow, color up and settle in. Some will make it and some won't. Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to it. I don't know one person who's never lost an SPS frag, or struggled with color(s) from time to time. These things most of the time work themselves out without us knowing what the heck caused it, but I'm definitely not going to stress the entire system of other corals doing just fine to save one. When you have an issue, check the baseline of what parameters were like when things were doing well. While every tank is different, all the successful ones are stable, with their keeper knowing how each parameter affects their system if it starts to swing.

+1... Great post.