Treating fish with copper but I have some questions now...

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Kurkis493

New member
I have a 40b 1/2 filled and I am treating my fish with copper to get rid of ICH.

The fish have been in the system for 6 days and I have not seen any ich on the fish for the last couple of days.

In the first 24 hours the water got incredibily cloudy - I assume this was everything in the water column dying to the copper.

I set-up one of my media reactors with pre-filter rocks, ammonia remove, clearmax, carbon and filter floss to handle this.

I've been feeding 3x a day (all the fish eat) and have been cleaning the bottom of the tank out once every 24 hours. I have been doing water changes almost daily but have not been replacing the copper.

Tonight I had an ammonia spike and ended up doing another 10 gallon change and my copper is less than .2 in the system now.

First, I am not sure what would cause this ammonia spike when I've been doing water changes and running the ammonia remover...

What direction should I go at this point? Should I bring the copper levels back-up in the tank and slowly remove it over the course of the second week?

Thanks.
 
Copper will give false readings on ammonia tests. Seachem ammonia alert badge is highly recommended.


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
Does that alert badge actually work? We are talking about the little square badge that goes into the tank on a suction cup right?

I have that in there already and the badge has been saying I have no ammonia while my test kit is telling me that I have it. I should just be trusting the badge? I thought perhaps it was a little bit gimmicky because it seemed to make things all to easy and was going by the test kits.

Should I be putting the copper back into the system or should I just do water changes?

I didn't use cupramine - The person who helped me set this all up lent me a bottle of "Copper Power"

I went into this without anything established. My hospital is a 40 breeder 1/2 filled. I have that Seachem Ammonia badge inside the tank, my Bluefin reactor is running pre-filter, carbon, clearmax and ammonia remover. All Fluval brand stuff that goes into their cannister filters. I also have a large airstone in the tank. That is all I have on this tank. I have Biomax but it is not in the reactor. The only other thing I can do is add some biomax but that wouldn't have any effect on the system until the biomax was established with the good bacteria.

I am just unsure if I should be bringing up the copper levels to .5 or letting them linger down around .2 now that the ich has resided. I do not know if the other stages for this parasite require that the copper by .5 or if having .2 in the system will suffice.
 
Last edited:
Kurkis493 said:
Does that alert badge actually work? We are talking about the little square badge that goes into the tank on a suction cup right?

I have that in there already and the badge has been saying I have no ammonia while my test kit is telling me that I have it. I should just be trusting the badge? I thought perhaps it was a little bit gimmicky because it seemed to make things all to easy and was going by the test kits.

Should I be putting the copper back into the system or should I just do water changes?

I didn't use cupramine - The person who helped me set this all up lent me a bottle of "Copper Power"

I went into this without anything established. My hospital is a 40 breeder 1/2 filled. I have that Seachem Ammonia badge inside the tank, my Bluefin reactor is running pre-filter, carbon, clearmax and ammonia remover. All Fluval brand stuff that goes into their cannister filters. I also have a large airstone in the tank. That is all I have on this tank. I have Biomax but it is not in the reactor. The only other thing I can do is add some biomax but that wouldn't have any effect on the system until the biomax was established with the good bacteria.

I am just unsure if I should be bringing up the copper levels to .5 or letting them linger down around .2 now that the ich has resided. I do not know if the other stages for this parasite require that the copper by .5 or if having .2 in the system will suffice.
Click to expand...

The badges really do work with copper and I'm quite sure most ammonia test kits don't work with any copper product, not just Cupramine. SeaChem makes them and they an excellent company (IMO & IME). Bio-Spira or Dr. Tim's bacteria starter would be a big help in getting a bio-filter going. There are lots of these bacteria starters around; but I've tried several over the years that don't work. These do.
Copper only kills ich in the free-swimming stage, so lowering CU when you don't see white spots is not the way to go. Never assume that not seeing spots on the fish is any indication of ich population, use the calendar. You can never see the actual parasite, so assume you have it and keep your copper at an effective level for 6 weeks or so. If you dropped copper below the deadly level for ich (I don't know what that is for Copper Power); I would re-start the treatment clock and treat for a full 6 weeks. It just takes one ich cyst to release one free-swimming parasite that reaches a fish and you're back to square one.
 
Not sure why your running carbon and other chemical media but that's not a good idea, carbon will remove all the copper. Yes the alert badges work, I'd get the copper power back to 2 ppm using API test kit, remove all chemical media, fill the tank full, add bio spira and let things be for 40 days. Feed sparinly, water changes in a hospital tank are not necessarry with good bio filtration and low stocking levels. If you want to test the badge hold it over a bottle of windex.


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
I will take out the carbon, ammonia remover and clearmax and replace it with some of the biomax things and add the spira.

My only question at this point would be - I have another 40 breeder, I have an extra MP10, bag of live sand and L/R that has been sitting fallow for several months in a rubbermaid with a powerhead and heater which I am certain there is no ich on that rock.

My fish have shown zero signs of ich for several days and my question now would be: Is there any reason not to just remove the fish from this hospital tank and transfer them to a better enviornment and let them sit there for 2 months while my DT sits fallow?

If I transfer zero water into the new system am I playing some odds game that whatever little water is on the fishes scales and inside their gills might have some form of the parasite?
 
Just because you don't see ich spots on the fish doesn't mean it isn't there. The white spot isn't even the ich parasite; just scar tissue (etc.) Ich love the gills too. There is no way you can tell if a fish has ich simply by looking. One parasite in the gills, drops off in the new tank and you're back to square one. Fish must be continuously exposed to the effective dose of copper for the required time...not just until they look better.
 
Ok thanks. I will not do that.

I removed the carbon, clearmax and ammonia remover from my filter and added biomax (biopellets) and a container of Instant Ocean Spira.

I added more water to system and only enough copper to match the added water. Having said that based off all my water changes, I am fairly certain I removed alot of copper along the way.

I am using a Seachem test kit which is nearly impossible to get a good reading in my opinion but I would say I am at .6ppm

I will get the other test kit people are recommending and hopefully that one is much easier to read.
 
API copper test is a must with chealated copper, copper power must be 2 ppm. Good luck


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
You mentioned bio pellets? Do you mean for de nitrafication? The carbon based ones? These will polute a qt more than help. Only ceramic, plastic, nylon filter media should be used.


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
Sorry, I meant to say Bio-Balls.

The Biomax from Fluval is their version of a Bio-Ball so I put those into the media reactor instead of the carbon, clearmax and ammonia remover. In addition I dumped a bottle of the bio-spira into the tank.

My copper levels are probably not where they need to be because I was apparently doing water changes I shouldn't have been. I will slowly get that into the right place and then start my timer on the copper.

Thanks for the tip on the Copper Power. A couple of people were saying to me the API test kits were horrible and that I should be using Seachem or Salifert ones. I understand why the API kit now.

I borrowed the Copper Power from a friend and he ironically had to treat a fish he just ordered in his QT and he asked for it back. At this point I need to order my own Copper Power or switch over to Cupramine... Everyone says to use Cupramine. Is there any reason I cannot switch over to this despite having already used Copper Power? Would this be a radically bad idea?
 
Last edited:
Mrscribbled said:
Not sure why your running carbon and other chemical media but that's not a good idea, carbon will remove all the copper. Yes the alert badges work, I'd get the copper power back to 2 ppm using API test kit, remove all chemical media, fill the tank full, add bio spira and let things be for 40 days. Feed sparinly, water changes in a hospital tank are not necessarry with good bio filtration and low stocking levels. If you want to test the badge hold it over a bottle of windex.


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
Click to expand...

This.

Add more water to your tank to about 38 gallons. Check my thread as I set up my 40g QT as well.

Also, feeding 3 times a day is a bit much. In a QT tank, you do not want to overfeed as water changes will become a daily habit with all the excess waste and food lingering.

I feed once per day and add seaweed once a day also.
 
Kurkis493 said:
Sorry, I meant to say Bio-Balls.

The Biomax from Fluval is their version of a Bio-Ball so I put those into the media reactor instead of the carbon, clearmax and ammonia remover. In addition I dumped a bottle of the bio-spira into the tank.

My copper levels are probably not where they need to be because I was apparently doing water changes I shouldn't have been. I will slowly get that into the right place and then start my timer on the copper.

Thanks for the tip on the Copper Power. A couple of people were saying to me the API test kits were horrible and that I should be using Seachem or Salifert ones. I understand why the API kit now.

I borrowed the Copper Power from a friend and he ironically had to treat a fish he just ordered in his QT and he asked for it back. At this point I need to order my own Copper Power or switch over to Cupramine... Everyone says to use Cupramine. Is there any reason I cannot switch over to this despite having already used Copper Power? Would this be a radically bad idea?
Click to expand...

You would have to do 100 percent water change to switch medications.


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
Yes 2ppm api test with copper power, ionic such as cupramine , .35 is effective, free copper must be .15, 2ppm copper power will achive this.


Posted from ReefCentral.com App for Android
 
What is my threshold with Copper Power?

I have the API test kit but I really don't know how close I am here on trying to get the color I need. Can I go up to 3pmm without eradicating the fish if I were to do it on accident?

I assume in this case I want to be higher than 2ppm not lower so I can ensure the ich is gone...

The fish got cleaned up but as you guys said, that wasn't a good indicator and I got a huge infestation back this morning on a couple of fish. My kit and new copper came today and I am bringing it back up to where it needs to be hopefully killing tomorrow's newborns before they can re-attach.

I just don't want to poison the fish with too much copper.

This test kit is damn near impossible to read - The water is opaque for sure and it is yellow more than it is orange or peach...
 
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