tricked by lfs

Marine Fishes by Scott W. Michael is a really good book to learn about the compatibility of fish and what they will eat.. mini. tank size, and how big the fishes get fully grown. And it also has a rating on how harty the fish is. Im going threw mine right now to help me decide which fishes i will be getting.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9572985#post9572985 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tura71
Thanks everyone!! I'm gonna head to my local library and do some more research. I'm trying to plan out what kind of fish to do. My daughter would love the clownfish, I read that they will play if bought in a pair, but I want to make sure that I plan way in advance so that I won't have any problems with compatability. I like the look of the tangs, but I heard to add them last and I don't think they'll go with clownfish. I know that I have some time to think about this... any suggestions? I also fell in love with a wrasse fish at the store but read that they like to dig and won't do well in the crushed coral. Any book suggestions for fish?

Tangs and clowns coexist ok, and how territorial they are depends more on the type of tang. For some, your 90 is too small. Wrasses are cool too, and there are alot that don't bury that will be just fin with CC if you decide to keep it.

Keep doing your homework!!
 
I just wanted to clear up a little info. Above people have said to use a fish to cycle your tank. This is not necessary and is very unethical. Live rock goes through a cycle because some stuff in it dies when you move it from thestore or through the mail. This is the only "food source" required for your tank to properly cycle. In some cases no die off will happen, particularly if buying fully cured rock for the lfs. This is the same, there is still the necessary bacterial inside the rock, and it will multiply to accommodate your bioload. As for removing your crushed coral, and adding dry base rock, personally I would do it now. Sand will help your fish selection quite a bit, and you wont have to worry about fish trying to play in the coral and scraping themselves up. Dry base rock is an excellent choice as in a few months it will become live, and you wont be able to tell the difference.
 
Using live rock, how long does it usually take to cycle the tank? I'm guessing at least 4 weeks. I did check my amonia levels and it was 0.25. Thanks again for everyones input. Can you put a bird wrasse in with a yellow tang and 2 clowns?? Yep, I need to get some more books!
 
I agree with scuba_steve1 with not using fish to cycle a tank. It's unnecessary and just mean. It's like locking someone in a room with toxic smoke and having them live in there until the smoke dissipates. 4-6 weeks is average for a cycle, but it may be a little shorter since you got a good bit of rock in there. Skip the shrimp, and if you want, just toss a pinch of food in there, but the dieoff from the live rock will suffice. I also would change the substrate now if that's what you want. If you do it later when you have fish, it wreaks havoc. Just look at it, and if you like it, leave it. Otherwise, change now. :)
 
Don't use fish to cycle your tank

I have a 55 with two whisper filters and 5 fish.

As for a reef tnak you can pick up a used remora on ehre or ebay usually and maybe switch the pump out. You can call remora for new clips they send them free.

I also have a 10gal with 4 fish, 2 shrimp and 6 corals.

Its all bout research and asking.

I would NOT use crushed coral in a SW tank. To hard for inverts and some fish to borrow in. better off with cari-sea sugar grain sand.
 
I've read this entire thread and haven't seen anything about water testing. If you bought a test kit from the LFS that should show you if the tank is cycled or not. There is no set timetable for a tank to cycle. HTH
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9575864#post9575864 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bambalam
I've read this entire thread and haven't seen anything about water testing. If you bought a test kit from the LFS that should show you if the tank is cycled or not. There is no set timetable for a tank to cycle. HTH

Ditto. Or about what type of water is to be used? Hopefully the LFS told you about dechlorinating it before putting it in the tank so you don't kill everything?

Then, I'm assuming you'll be going with tapwater, like I did for years. I'd have your water tested or test it yourself with as many kits as you have. A tiny amount of phosphate will let algae take over a tank if left uncheck and under poor spectrum lighting.

Many water facilities purposely add phosphates to make the water easier on the pipes, or so I've been told. The water coming out of my tap has 1.5 ppm phosphate consistanly. And that's just one problem area. So every water change, you'll be dumping more phosphate in if that's the case.
If your water has copper in it, you won't be able to keep any invertebrates ever. Any other heavy metals can build up over time and also cause a crash. For the most part, tap water is bad in most areas and not suitable for maintaining a tank long term.

That statement will probably cause this thread to explode now but I believe it whole heartedly. My tap water has a total disolved solids (TDS) reading of 286. Pure RO/DI has a reading of 0. The 286 coming out of the tap is after going through a Britta filter, so any lead and most metals are previously taken out. I have no idea what the 286 TDS consists of.

I'm not trying to scare you, but just trying to make you aware before you go into it that you can be in for an algae fight in no time. I have a decent skimmer running 24/7. I only use RO/DI, 0 TDS water. I just cooked my live rock for 3 months in a dark tub. I have 0 nitrates and a lot of liverock. I just replaced all my substrate with brand new and re-did the tank, trying to beat bryopsis algae. Low and behold, it's growing back around my corals again. I've only fed the tank for a week, after a 75% WC.

I don't know how, but I've done everything I can to beat it. I'm afraid in another few months my tank could be a mess again. I don't know what will happen.

Hook up an RO/DI unit and get a refugium if at all possible. I know it sounds crazy for a FOWLR but it would be well worth it in the long run.
 
I have well water and have never had a problem with my fresh water tank except that it is a little cloudy when I do water changes due to some sand. My well water tested good, no phosphates and a ph naturally at 7.5. I did buy a water kit and I've tested my tank. The amonia level was 0.25, ph 8.0, nitrite 0.25, nitrate 0, water temp 78-80. I'm still considering changing to sand but my husband would kill me for spending over $60 to just throw the coral away. I'm going to have to work on him.
 
I'm glad you found this site. I know I was sure glad when I found it!!! Here's a few things to think about.

Crushed Coral is fine in your tank. IMO, it is easier to vacuum than sand. CC is more likely to grow algae than sand though. Sand also normally doesn't need as much cleaning because of the nature of sand and your cleaning crew in your tank. With a FOWLR (Fish Only With Live Rock) you may decide not to have a cleaning crew though, it'll depend on what fish you want. One of my tanks has crushed coral and the other two have sand. I do have a small problem in one tank with sand being displaced on a regular basis by my flow and by sand sifting critters. With Crushed Coral, you won't have that problem. I have a lil' more of a problem with algae in the tank with Crushed Coral. I just vacuum the algae off of the substrate on occasion, something that's near impossible with sand.

A Protein Skimmer would go a LONG way to making life a lot easier on you but isn't mandatory. If you have large fish or a heavier fish load, you'll end up with a pretty high nutrient level without a skimmer. Save your money and invest in a good skimmer down the road. Your LFS wasn't all that wrong when he said you wouldn't need one for a few months.

Sump...you don't need one. I have 3 SW tanks and only 1 has a sump/refugium. All of my tanks have skimmers but they're all reef tanks.

Take your time in cycling. I would urge you to NOT use fish to cycle. It's very inhumane as even a hardy fish will go through a lot of stress during a cycle period. Your live rock will cycle your tank for you. If you have access to someone else with an established tank, try and get a cup or two of either crushed coral or sand from them. That will seed your crushed coral. Don't worry if it's sand, it'll sift it's way through your crushed coral and after a few days, you'll never see it. As for how long your cycle will take...that varies but about 3-4 weeks. If you don't have test kits yet, get some. You can spend the money to get good quality, accurate Salifert test kits which come individually boxed for each type of kit, or you can get a master test kit that will have most of what you need in one. They aren't quite as accurate though. I use Salifert now, after using the master test kits for awhile. To start with, you'll need to be able to test Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Alkalinity and pH. Here's how your cycle will go.

You'll test regularly to start with and notice a rise in Ammonia. Then as your Ammonia peaks and starts to drop, you'll notice a rise in Nitrites. As your Nitrites peak and start to drop, you'll notice a rise in Nitrates. Once your Ammonia and Nitrites read 0, you're cycle is pretty much complete. You'll reduce your Nitrates with water changes. Once your Nitrates are under 20 ppm, you're safe adding fish. If this were a reef tank, you'd want to have Nitrates less than 5 ppm. Speaking of Nitrates...that cannister filter you got...if you haven't used it yet, take it back. You can use it but plan on cleaning the media inside it once a week. Otherwise, it'll become a "Nitrate Factory." This is caused when detritus builds up on the sponges or floss or other media that's inside it. THis detritus will feed Nitrates...which will feed algae. This is also where a skimmer is so effective. It removed dissolved organic nutrients from the water.

Add fish slowly. Test your water for a small ammonia and nitrites spike for a few days after each fish is added. You'll probably get small spikes of each.

In the meantime, while waiting for your new tank to cycle, WELCOME TO REEF CENTRAL!! Welcome to the wonderful world of saltwater fish keeping. You'll soon be as addicted as the rest of us!! I predict that within a year, you'll have a second tank and one of them will probably be a reef tank!! lol. Then plan on NEVER retiring because you can't afford it!!! It's the lighting that gets ya!!! With a FOWLR tank, lighting isn't as important and normal fluorescent lighting is adequate. Better lighting would look better for your viewing pleasure but that's about it. Read all you can find on this forum, on www.wetwebmedia.com and on www.reeffrontiers.com (Hope it's okay to recommend another source of great information on here.) Also, if I could only recommend 1 book, it'd have to be "The Conscientious Reef Aquarist" by Robert Fenner.

Good luck and again....welcome!! Take your time, be patient and above all, don't get discouraged. Your LFS was correct in one point...you CAN do saltwater fish!!
 
what do you recommend for the backing? I read that some paint the back of their tanks black, but its a bit too late for that. Has anyone ever tried black felt for a more matted look? Also is there any way to kind of camoflage all this equipment? The power head looks so ugly and when I get a skimmer it will only look worse. That must be one of the advantages of having a sump.
 
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